Cummins 4BT & Diesel Conversions Forums banner
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
407 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Gents, Ive gone through the archives (several years lookback) and was able to extract some baseline understanding on the Silver 453T turbocharger;
  • Detroit p/n 8926101 , T04E03 (latest iteration)
  • Compressor: Ind; 56.6mm, exd; 74.9mm, trim; 57, 6 blades
  • Turbine: Ind; 63.5mm, exd; 73.5mm, trim; 74, 11 Blades
  • Turbine housing: .81 A/R, T4 open plenum/scroll
  • No map published, that I aware of.

Helping a friend pick a more modern replacement bolt-on turbo for his silver 453T engine with following upgrades/mods;
  • 7A77 injectors, oem timing (thanks to past recommendations on this board)
  • Gen2 dodge intercooler
  • 4" downpipe & full exhaust with large truck muffler.
  • original silver blower with bypass (stock 5 to 8 psi spring I believe)
  • 3/4 ton pickup (~6500 lbs), 2wd, .78 OD, 3.54 rear, 33" tires, ~ 1800rpm cruise @ 65mph, occasional < 10k towing.

He's looking for a slight bump in power with smoke free cruising (slight hazing tolerable upon acceleration), reliable & shooting for ~20mpg cruise.


Im leaning toward suggesting the Borg Warner S257SX-E turbo with the following specs;
  • Compressor: Ind; 57.17mm, exd; 76.2mm, trim; 56, 7 blades
  • Turbine: Ind; 61.43mm, exd; 70mm, trim; 77, 10 Blades
  • Turbine housing: .83 A/R, T4 divided scroll (housing not available in open scroll apparently, to match the open plenum 453T exhaust manifold)
  • Max Flow Rate: 64 lbs/min


Slope Font Triangle Parallel Rectangle



Any suggestions or comments from the knowledge base on this board. Thanks for the input.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,630 Posts
It's a good approach you've got matching wheel diameters. A modern turbo is going to be more efficient and spool faster even if it's got similar size and geometry. This is mostly because blade shapes are better now.

But if you want to spool sooner/faster drop down turbine housing A/R size. That same SX200 should be available with a range of turbine housings.

I don't know how much boost those engines are good for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
407 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Dougal,
Your input has been invaluable to so many on this board over the years. There's a .68 A/R housing available in T4 (divided scroll as well), should produce quicker spool up and still stay within acceptable back pressure limits. Ill look into it.
 

·
Registered
1951 Dodge B3F
Joined
·
37 Posts
thanks for the research, I have been looking for alternatives as well, and between members A310, Whitbread and others here, this site has been invaluable for sure! I know A310 has played with many different turbo options as well and he may chime in here as well. please keep up updated on what you find.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
407 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Another option may be the Garrett GTX3576R GEN II :
  • Compressor: Ind; 58mm, exd; 76mm, trim; 58, 9 blades, forged billet
  • Turbine: Ind; 62mm, exd; 68mm, trim; 84, 11 Blades
  • Turbine housing: .82 -or- .63 A/R, T4 open plenum/scroll
  • Dual ceramic ball bearing, water (& oil) cooled CHRA
  • Max flow rate: 67 lb/min
Triangle Font Slope Parallel Naval architecture

Rectangle Font Parallel Screenshot Electronic device


However, the price for these is not for the faint of heart. Over $2000 for genuine Garrett, or around $500 for the Chi'com knockoff versions (Pulsar etc.), which actually have mostly good reviews.

The "84" trim spec on the turbine wheel (vs. "74" of the oem TO4E03) indicates higher flow/slower spool, but the lighter billet wheel and better overall design improvements may offset that difference. Otherwise, a tighter .63 T4 open scroll housing is available for this one as well. As always, I'd run a pyrometer and pressure gauges to monitor EGT's, boost, drive, airbox pressures.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
145 Posts
For a stockish 4-53T, the S257SXE or the GT3576R are good matches that will spool faster than the original turbo, especially the GT3576R being ball bearing. I have wholesale connections for BW, Garrett, and Pulsar. A S257SXE with .83 T4 turbine housing would be right about $850 shipped, Garrett is over $2k so I'm not even going to bother, and the Pulsar GT3576R would be just under $600 shipped.

A friend of mine has been using the Pulsar units for over 2 years on 30 couple drift car builds with zero issues or failures. I'm going to be running a Pulsar S363 and S475 on my compound turbo 4-53T. My goal is 400whp so my air needs are good bit different than most here haha.

Vwjunkie53, aka Jason, is going to try a Pulsar S363 on his 4-53t chevy as a single very soon. He's running 90 injectors now, will put in 110-120's in it when funds allow. A handful of guys have run the Borg 177272 s361 with good results on 4-53T's so we're hopeful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
407 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I believe Ive finally stumbled across the flow map for the Garrett TO4E "57" trim as installed oem on the Silver 453T. The 453T Silver's compressor wheel specs at Ind; 56.6mm, exd; 74.9mm, which comes out to a 57 trim. Could be coincidence, but the data points seem to be within range.

Font Electric blue Brand Number Trademark


Rectangle Font Line Parallel Slope




Next level up in aftermarket, would be the Pulsar "Next Gen 363D" with 2.5" compressor hose outlet (v-band option), 4.21" Marmon turbine outlet. This is Pulsar's equivalent to Borg's S363.

Pulsar 363D
Compressor: Ind; 63mm, exd; 87mm, trim; 52, 7 blades, forged billet
Turbine: Ind; 73mm, exd; 80mm, trim; 83, 10 Blades
Turbine housing: .88 A/R, T4 open plenum/scroll
Dual ceramic ball bearing, oil cooled only ..no water cooling CHRA
Max flow rate: 100 lb/min
Doesn't appear Pulsar publishes their compressor maps.


Whit, do you know what turbo Jason is currently running with those N90's ? is he contemplating the S363 to clean up smoke with those sticks ? From the archives it looked like he was running a TO4B "H" trim at one time. I'm assuming one would need at least N90's to run this S363 with minimal lag. Id be worried about low rpm smoke and response, or run the DD oem fuel modulator to cut back on the fuel in the lower rpm ranges ..again, to obtain no smoke, minimal hazing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
635 Posts
I think the perfect single for 90's is a Borg Warner SXE 362.:) I'm running a modified Garrett T04E and runs really nice. I've modified the compressor housing to accept a 59mm compressor and made a T51R mod. For the 7A77's I'm running it's perfect, great response, no smoke and low egt's. Eventually I'll upgrade to 9G90's and see how it performs, but for now I'll leave it alone.:)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,630 Posts
Comparing turbine size. The original turbine (63.5/73.5mm, 0.81 A/R) calculates out to a CCF (corrected choke flow) of ~28lb/min. This isn't a real flow number, it's intended to represent the flow size of the turbine.
Garrett get the same number with a 0.82A/R turbine in the maps above. Going smaller than that drives the turbo harder and generates boost faster.

Turbine trims grew to about 0.84 as understanding of the flows developed. Larger trims are more efficient and have a wider operating range Early turbines with smaller trim numbers choked out sooner and couldn't get as much energy from the expanding exhaust gas (because they didn't let it expand).

A good task next is to map out compressor air-flow and see what you need. Best plan is to map out max torque and max power points.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
407 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Do not intent this thread but while on this subject thought to ask.
Any suggestions for factory 3-53T turbo engine?
Would a waste gate turbo be the way to go with 2 stroke?
Bob G. In Virginia
Start a separate thread with your question on the 353T ..."353T - modern turbo suggestions ?"... or something similar and Im sure you'll get some experienced folks chiming in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
145 Posts
Next level up in aftermarket, would be the Pulsar "Next Gen 363D" with 2.5" compressor hose outlet (v-band option), 4.21" Marmon turbine outlet. This is Pulsar's equivalent to Borg's S363.

Pulsar 363D
Compressor: Ind; 63mm, exd; 87mm, trim; 52, 7 blades, forged billet
Turbine: Ind; 73mm, exd; 80mm, trim; 83, 10 Blades
Turbine housing: .88 A/R, T4 open plenum/scroll
Dual ceramic ball bearing, oil cooled only ..no water cooling CHRA
Max flow rate: 100 lb/min
Doesn't appear Pulsar publishes their compressor maps.


Whit, do you know what turbo Jason is currently running with those N90's ? is he contemplating the S363 to clean up smoke with those sticks ? From the archives it looked like he was running a TO4B "H" trim at one time. I'm assuming one would need at least N90's to run this S363 with minimal lag. Id be worried about low rpm smoke and response, or run the DD oem fuel modulator to cut back on the fuel in the lower rpm ranges ..again, to obtain no smoke, minimal hazing.
I wouldn't look at the 363D, it is only available with the larger turbine for whatever reason. You want the smaller turbine S363 found in the Pulsar Billet 363 366 369 Journal Bearing Turbo with 90° Elbow Outlet Compressor - Pulsar Turbo Systems with the 76mmx67.5mm turbine option.

He's running a green or silver stock 4-53t turbo, can't remember which. He's looking to clean up the smoke and get some more power while he's at it.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top