[BobS]

I stumbled across this website: http://www.dieselnet.com/ and started to cut and paste an article but was not able to due to copyright laws. There are a lot of the explanations such as how the chip trucks were able to meet regulations because of GVW and class:
http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ld_t2.php

I have also had a few long conversations with a person here in Pennsylvania's Department of Transportation Emissions Inspection Division concerning having a title rebranded as "Modified" for fuel types. In Pa and their current interpretation of the federal highway emissions regulations the only legal way to have the title modified is based on the original manufacturers chassis availability and only the original approved engines that were available from the factory apply. As an example this means if you have a 305 gasoline engine in an 82 GMC 1/2 Ton pickup truck you can only install a diesel engine that was federally approved for that chassis which would be the NA 6.2L diesel. Even though the 4BT would be a newer federal emissions approved engine it was not originally a federally approved (or yet invented) engine in 1982 for that chassis. According to federal law it would also be illegal to install a computer controlled Duramax in the same chassis again because the 1982 chassis was not federally approved for the Duramax.

Now for something that I found as a bit shocking. You folks in California are better off than the rest of us when it comes to diesel conversion. Ca is recognized as EXEMPT from federal emissions due to their more stringent emissions testing and laws. This is one of those times when living in Ca may actually be in your favor.

So what does this mean? Overall I would thing that if you are doing a conversion you may want to look for a pre 1970's chassis that was never required to be emissions approved by the federal government. Again your particular state or country may already have preset requirements in place. The important part is to check everything before you start your project.

 

[COLOJEEPGUY2K]

Here in Colorado, non-emission controlled areas, I can tell you that when I do a VIN inspections I can change the fuel type from unleaded to deisel, if they have done the conversion. I have only had to twice in three years. Once was for a Propane conversion, and the other two were for people that have paid to have a DC assist motor installed. Which means I have to write in HYBRID-GAS/ELE. I am thinking about doing the DC motor addition, if I have the money ofcourse.

 

[Machman]

Yep..

The only thing I can think of that might help where they won't allow any swapping except for "factory provided" combinations would be to see what the "special construction" or "kit car" laws are in those states.

Most of these laws I've read so far seem to indicate that the emissions requirements are usually based upon the year / fuel / whatever of the chassis, and if that's also homebrew, then falls to the engine being used.

Oh, and you might have to go even older than you thought to get to a vehicle not subject to emissions controls.. The PCV system was first required on vehicles in California in 1963.

 

[nhdiesel]

One thing most people are unaware of, is that federal law overrides state law when it comes to emissions (except, apparently, for California). Even if your state has NO emissions inspection at all, you are still required to meet Federal emissions regulations. Your state just doesn't check it themselves. For example, even if your state doesn't require you to have a catalytic converter, you are still required to have one if your vehicle came with one.

The good thing (for some people) is that most states don't check for full Federal emissions equipment, and the Feds don't have the manpower to do thorough checks of all vehicles. I say its a good thing not because I approve of emitting higher emissions than Federal law allows, but because many of their laws are overzealous and make no sense at all. Using the above example, does it make sense that a far cleaner Duramax isn't allowed to be installed into an older vehicle? Or that I'm breaking the law by installing a 4bt that will easily get 26+ mpg into my 2000 Durango that only got 15 with the 360?

Edit: Yes, there are some provisions for engine swapping that allow engines of the same year, or newer than, the vehicle, and emissions equipment for that engine must be used. I think swapping from gas to diesel is different though, and not allowed.

Jim

 

[Machman]

One thing most people are unaware of, is that federal law overrides state law when it comes to emissions (except, apparently, for California).

No, they have to operate within the EPA's rules. At least right now. They're suing the EPA to make California exempt from the the Clean Air Act because it restricts them from getting as TOUGH as they want on emissions requirements:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-warm9nov09,0,6632855.story?coll=la-home-center

 

[COLOJEEPGUY2K]

The good thing (for some people) is that most states don't check for full Federal emissions equipment, and the Feds don't have the manpower to do thorough checks of all vehicles. I say its a good thing not because I approve of emitting higher emissions than Federal law allows, but because many of their laws are overzealous and make no sense at all.

Jim

I agree, we don't have the manpower to check for "factory installed" emissions equipment. I know alot of states back east still require "safety inspections". Who's to say the EPA couldn't require that type of inspection that includes an emission check throughout the US. It would be a sad, sad, day when it come to pass.

The funny thing is, I rememeber when I was in High School I had a Honda Accord with a 4cyl 3 valve motor that got 42MPG most of the time. Now the Honda Accord

Original 1976 Accord Press Release

HONDA INTRODUCES THE ACCORD CVCC

A completely new automobile from Honda - the Accord CVCC - will make its international debut in American and Japanese showrooms in early June.

A luxury automobile in its standard appointments, the Accord will advise its owner-driver when doors or hatchback are open - and which one - when either brake light is burned out, when it needs an oil change, a new oil filter, tire rotation, or when the fuel tank is running low.

A "bigger small" in the sub-compact luxury class, the Accord 5-speed is rated at 44 miles per gallon on the highway, 31 miles per gallon in the city and 36 miles per gallon combined by Environmental Protection Agency estimates. These figures cover all 50 states.

The Accord 5-speed carries a manufacturer's suggested list price of $3,995.

31 years later....

2007 Honda Accord press release

Powertrain
All 2008 Accord engines deliver increased horsepower across the board, along with high fuel efficiency and low emissions. In total, these power plants represent the most powerful and advanced technologies of any Accord in history, and are also projected to deliver excellent real-world fuel economy performance. All engines only require regular unleaded fuel. Powertrain highlights include:

2.4-liter, DOHC, i-VTEC 4-cylinder engine (Sedan LX, LX-P)
· 177 horsepower at 6500 rpm, 161 lb-ft. of torque at 4300 rpm
· 5-speed automatic transmission or 5-speed manual transmission
· Estimated EPA fuel economy of 21/31 mpg City/Highway2 (Sedan, Automatic)
· PZEV1 or ULEV-2 emissions

The only thing that comes to mind is "Houston we have a problem!!!"

 

[JimmieD]

The general rule is that pre '76, as in '75 and older, is emissions exempt. There's some ringers hidden away in state laws. In CA the requirement from DMV is to do an 'Engine change certificate' for registration when the engine is different from what originally came in the vehicle. Only a moron would fill one out and submit.

I've been swapping engines in California for decades and never did a paper swap for DMV and never had ANY problems. Never had a lawman ask me to open the hood so he could check engine number. They're just too busy.
Some of that depends on the person behind the wheel or behind the badge of course, but CA is famous as a hot rodder's mecca with custom homebuilts as an established way of life.

Regarding pre-75 I think that's nationwide on SMOG exemption. Soon as you hit that vintage the question of what's under the hood becomes moot because there's no applicable regs. Exception: if a guy registers an engine change to a post '75 engine then he has to meet that year/engine SMOG regs in addition to any vehicle year/model regs. 99.99999999% of the time it's 'Don't ask, don't tell' policy.

 

[nhdiesel]

The other thing that would make older vehicles tough to regulate is that many companies swapped engines, and I'm sure they are very difficult to get original info for. For example, International used some Jeep engines (232, for example), Jeep used GM engines (231 and Buick 350), etc. These days it would stand out if you open the hood of a Toyota and see a GM V-8.

Our emissions inspection only pertains to 1996+ vehicles, so anything older than that is up to the inspection shop. Many shops don't care, and only check for safety equipment. The very few that do check for emissions equipment only check for a cat, and possibly any obviously unhooked emissions parts. As long as the engine looks "right", and doesn't have a bunch of blocked off hoses and missing parts, it would pass. Of course when I pull in with a Cummins Durango, I would get some strange looks. Its a good thing our shop does inspections. I know the Durango will pass!!!

Jim

 

[BobS]

Good points being made but the bottom line currently is how under each state's rights to the interpretation of how they enforce the federal regulations. Some states look the other way when it comes to the older vehicles primarily because the overall percentage is very low or they are more tolerant in preventing hardships to the poorer folks who are driving these older vehicles.

In Pennsylvania the enforcement of the federal standards is currently being enforced. As stated earlier it amounts to the chassis and engine combination having a history of prior federal approval. As another example: A 1970 Chevy 1/2 Ton pickup came with an air injection reactor pump where as the 3/4 Ton model was exempt from having one due to its GVW. Swapping an engine between the two chassis is in violation of federal law, no ifs ands, or buts involved. The mandate here also involves inspection of the vehicle for the correct GVW as manufactured. This means you can not just increase the GVW and retitle the 1/2 Ton as 3/4 Ton and then it is legal.

A "special construction" title in PA involves having a vehicle made from individual parts of other vehicles or home made body parts. The vehicle must share its own identity and can not resemble its main sub-assemblies. As an example a fiberglass dune buggy body on a VW chassis. All components used in the assembly require proof of purchase receipts, vehicular components require the place of purchase along with the VIN number of the vehicle from which the component was removed. Ref: PA form MV-426.

If your particular state laws are currently still loose enough then you will not currently have any problems. The problem will be when all states enforcement policies start abiding by the stricter federal regulations. This could just be a matter of time for all states except of course California.

Ref: The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency: http://www.epa.gov/Compliance/resour.../engswitch.pdf

Your worst case senario could be the day you are at the local fueling station filling up (not picking on Jim) your Durango at the diesel pump and a young ambitious and enthusiastic state trooper pulls in who owns the same year Durango and asks something like "How did you get a Durango with a diesel engine?" followed by "Who inspected this?"

 

[Ekrub7788]

Ok i just got a quick question. i have a 1970 bronco that i am dropping in a 4bta in. Just wondering if that is legal in Virginia?

 

[Pantherman]

Your worst case senario could be the day you are at the local fueling station filling up (not picking on Jim) your Durango at the diesel pump and a young ambitious and enthusiastic state trooper pulls in who owns the same year Durango and asks something like "How did you get a Durango with a diesel engine?" followed by "Who inspected this?"

That's why I use home Biodiesel in my diesel vehicles. :tongue:

 

[COLOJEEPGUY2K]

Your worst case senario could be the day you are at the local fueling station filling up (not picking on Jim) your Durango at the diesel pump and a young ambitious and enthusiastic state trooper pulls in who owns the same year Durango and asks something like "How did you get a Durango with a diesel engine?" followed by "Who inspected this?"

That will be a very bad day indeed. Funny you say "young ambitious and enthusiastic state trooper" We have lots of those here. They last about 1-2 years and move on to the Denver metro area, more action I guess.:dustin:

 

[mooktank]

That will be a very bad day indeed. Funny you say "young ambitious and enthusiastic state trooper" We have lots of those here. They last about 1-2 years and move on to the Denver metro area, more action I guess.:dustin:

FWIW I survived a year in MA with no trouble at all. I even reg'd the truck as a diesel.

I think when it comes to the legality you need to disobey an unjust law. I'm going to compile a case study of my truck using DOE documents to prove it should be legal to swap in a 4BT. I'm going to send it to my lawmakers and I'll post it up for fair use so you guys can do it too. Who knows; maybe we could put some common sense into the law.

 

[Oldguy]

Common Sense???

FWIW I survived a year in MA with no trouble at all. I even reg'd the truck as a diesel.

I think when it comes to the legality you need to disobey an unjust law. I'm going to compile a case study of my truck using DOE documents to prove it should be legal to swap in a 4BT. I'm going to send it to my lawmakers and I'll post it up for fair use so you guys can do it too. Who knows; maybe we could put some common sense into the law.

Please don`t take this the wrong way Mooktank, but you live in Mass!! Common sense is not allowed by law in your state! Kennedy and Kerry are proof of that. Unfortunately, my state is headed the same direction. The increased amount of fuel burned using winter blend fuel (read lower tailpipe emissions) actually increased the amount of pollutants in the Portland Metropolitan area.

 

[nhdiesel]

Your worst case senario could be the day you are at the local fueling station filling up (not picking on Jim) your Durango at the diesel pump and a young ambitious and enthusiastic state trooper pulls in who owns the same year Durango and asks something like "How did you get a Durango with a diesel engine?" followed by "Who inspected this?"

I understand that completely. Fortunately, our state is more concerned with whether your vehicle has a plate light out (I think people have been handcuffed, tortured, and sentenced to life without parole for that!) than worrying about whats under the hood. If there is a nice, new inspection sticker in the windshield, they are happy.

Too bad more states aren't this lenient. Then again, if you look at the specifics of our newest laws, they aren't exactly lenient. Its just easy to bypass them.

Jim

 

[BobS]

Ok i just got a quick question. i have a 1970 bronco that i am dropping in a 4bta in. Just wondering if that is legal in Virginia?

Check with your local emissions testing location if you have one or PM another VA member on here.

 

[Blueflame]

As far as I know Oklahoma doesn't require that the fuel type be put on the title. In fact the first time I heard of it was on this forum. Learn something every day. I think Im going to be O.K. here with my 64 International / 4bt. In fact International did so many bazaar in house special builds I probably could convince an inspector that it was factory. They really did some weird stuff. This is my first 4bt, but I always go out of the way to make things look factory. Ive even thought about adapting a valve cover from a H Farmall tractor to fit on the 4bt, maybe even a data plate from one.

 

[MerlinConversions]

The general rule is that pre '76, as in '75 and older, is emissions exempt. There's some ringers hidden away in state laws. In CA the requirement from DMV is to do an 'Engine change certificate' for registration when the engine is different from what originally came in the vehicle. Only a moron would fill one out and submit.

I've been swapping engines in California for decades and never did a paper swap for DMV and never had ANY problems. Never had a lawman ask me to open the hood so he could check engine number. They're just too busy.
Some of that depends on the person behind the wheel or behind the badge of course, but CA is famous as a hot rodder's mecca with custom homebuilts as an established way of life.

Regarding pre-75 I think that's nationwide on SMOG exemption. Soon as you hit that vintage the question of what's under the hood becomes moot because there's no applicable regs. Exception: if a guy registers an engine change to a post '75 engine then he has to meet that year/engine SMOG regs in addition to any vehicle year/model regs. 99.99999999% of the time it's 'Don't ask, don't tell' policy.

Message to JimmieD. I have two 4bt conversion vehicles, one a 95 toyota and the other a 2003 suburban. I am moving to California in December of 08. Can you help me in telling me how to get these vehicles licensed with out an act of congress????? Would you please do me the favor of calling me at 606-748-1998 to discuss this????? Thanks a bunch. MerlinConversions in KY

 

[domepiece1]

i've been doing some reading on Texas inspections and as it appears to me if the vehice is over 24 years old you don't have to be tested for emissions. it also said that if th truck is 25 years or older it ccan be tagged as a classic and then the same applies. only safety tests. I plan on moving to the DFW area in the next year or two and would like to know if that's correct.

 

[BigMike75]

Be careful of using the Classic Tag for Texas. If you use that tag, the vehicle can't be driven as normal transportation. It is only limited to parades and events with the Classic Tag from Texas.