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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
diesel ZF-5/1356 combo out of a '93 F350, will this work behind a 4bt with a ford adapter plate? What do I need to make it work if it will?
 

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i have been led to believe that you can put the innards of a diesel zf into a small block case. vastly simplifying things. avreagef250 will confirm/deny this i'm sure.
 

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The diesel ZF trans will not bolt up and no one makes an adapter.

The diesel gearset in the 4.9L / 5.8L trans does work well (more favorable ratios)

If someone would take your diesel ZF trans on trade for one that came behind a 4.9 / 5.8 you would be sitting pretty.

Cheapest one I found around here is $1400
 

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what about the fordcummins.com adapter?

can you definitely put the diesel ZF gearset in the smallblock ZF?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Is there an easy way to confirm gear ratios? I know you can swap the internals into a small block but it sounds like you have to have the right tools and experience to do the conversion. Is that correct? I know there are adapter out there but their all $700+. I am also trying to get info on machining an existing adapter to work one member has done that with success. Other ideas are welcome.

Patrick
 

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Use the destroked plate or have someone who knows what they're doing swap cases. The destroked plate is a better option since you get a clutch that will handle the 4BT's power potential with the Ford diesel bellhousing.

To work on a ZF you either need mad skills with oxy/acetylene, an extensive puller/splitter selection/good press and Arnold Swartzeneger to bearhug the 100 pound gearset and drop it in the case or at the bare minimum to do it the right way you need a gearset cradle, a proper bearing heater and special tool 308-393 to remove the input bearing after you measure the case clearance without shims.

If you try to pull the input race using heat to the case use heat sticks and keep it under 450 because it takes a bunch of heat and there's a good chance you'll distort the case making your without shim measurements useless.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Averagef250 Thanks for weighing in. I was hoping you would. You have added your .02 on many of my prelim questions as I set up for my build (4bta in an Early Bronco) I have been trying to finalize a trany decision and have been moving more toward manual given the cost and difficulty of using a OD auto trans. Originally I was thinking NV4500 but after doing more research am leaning to a zf 5 or 6 speed. I recently was presented with the possibility of acquiring the above zf 5 sd and like the fact that it is from a diesel and a ford product. So here are my questions:

What is the destroke plate?
What other parts will I need and from where? IE clutch, Flywheel, Starter, etc.

Thanks to all for your input.

Patrick
 

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The diesel ZF5 and 6 speed have very similiar ratios, the zf-5 simply lacks a granny. The 6 speed is also several inches taller and has an odd 24 spline output. googling "destroked cummins" should get you to the destroked website and answer your questions.
 

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I was able to snag a Ford OEM ZF5 tool kit off E-bay for $35. It has all the special tools needed to rebuild one. I've got a 20T press. For heating the synchros I was going to use an oil bath on a hot plate with a hi-temp thermometer I have. I think I know where to get a diesel gear set for a couple hundred so I'm going to try installing that into my small block case. This is for the future, to start out I'm using the original M5R2 with new bearings and synchros. Its got better ratios than a small block ZF and unless you're towing heavy or beating it off road it should work good with a stock engine. The only thing I don't like about the small block ZF is the internal slave cylinder, it could probably be converted to external with some work, another thing I want to look at when I rebuild the ZF.
 

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for reference:

ZF S5-42 Close Ratio:
R: 3.79
1: 4.14
2: 2.37
3: 1.42
4: 1.00
5: 0.77

ZF S5-42 Wide Ratio:
R: 5.24
1: 5.72
2: 2.94
3: 1.61
4: 1.00
5: 0.76

ZF S5-47 Close Ratio
R: 4.66
1: 5.08
2: 2.60
3: 1.53
4: 1.00
5: 0.77

ZF S5-47 Wide-Ratio:
R: 5.24
1: 5.72
2: 2.94
3: 1.61
4: 1.00
5: 0.76

ZF S6-650
1: 5.79
2: 3.31
3: 2.10
4: 1.31
5: 1.00
6: .76
 

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I was able to snag a Ford OEM ZF5 tool kit off E-bay for $35. It has all the special tools needed to rebuild one. I've got a 20T press. For heating the synchros I was going to use an oil bath on a hot plate with a hi-temp thermometer I have. I think I know where to get a diesel gear set for a couple hundred so I'm going to try installing that into my small block case. This is for the future, to start out I'm using the original M5R2 with new bearings and synchros. Its got better ratios than a small block ZF and unless you're towing heavy or beating it off road it should work good with a stock engine. The only thing I don't like about the small block ZF is the internal slave cylinder, it could probably be converted to external with some work, another thing I want to look at when I rebuild the ZF.
Check your tools to see you have the input bearing race removal tool. There are a half a dozen different rotunda ZF-5/6 tool sets. The tricky part with the zf is removing the countershaft forward race and the input bearing race without destroying them. Most of the input races are in there real good.
 

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I was able to snag a Ford OEM ZF5 tool kit off E-bay for $35. It has all the special tools needed to rebuild one. I've got a 20T press. For heating the synchros I was going to use an oil bath on a hot plate with a hi-temp thermometer I have. I think I know where to get a diesel gear set for a couple hundred so I'm going to try installing that into my small block case. This is for the future, to start out I'm using the original M5R2 with new bearings and synchros. Its got better ratios than a small block ZF and unless you're towing heavy or beating it off road it should work good with a stock engine. The only thing I don't like about the small block ZF is the internal slave cylinder, it could probably be converted to external with some work, another thing I want to look at when I rebuild the ZF.
Why don't you just run it stock? It's not bad. Spend $15 on the 3200 gov spring for the pump and you're golden.
 

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If he gets used to driving it with the M5R2 ratios switching to the gas S5-42 ratios will be a let down spring or not.

M5R2:
3.90
2.25
1.50
1
.80
3.39 reverse
 

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zf542

I have made an adaptor for the zf out of a 460 ford.I have run it in my yj for over 7000 miles it has given me no problems as of now.I am going to pull it out next week so as to make somemore of them.If they are not too difficult to make Ill sell them for under 400.00

Pat Avery
 
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