[beck]

I took the turbo off my motor tonight to repair the exhaust manifold to turbo gasket leak. It only had 1 nut holding it on as I drove 550 miles home. Naturally there is only a little over 1/2 of the gasket left.
After I removed the turbo I found the compressor outlet is black and sticky inside the discharge. The tube to the intake manifold is the same near the turbo, but is clean on the engine intake end. Is this a problem?? It sure doesn't seem right to me.
Does this mean I have a shaft oil leak on the compressor side?
What is the fix?
Can I handle it myself?
All those good questions.
Information please!
When I have something off the motor I am a cleanup freak. I would like to take the turbo apart to bead blast the exhaust side, and clean up the inside of the compressor side as a minumum. Are there gaskets where the housings bolt to the cartridge? I downloaded the Cummins repair manual that was posted a few days ago but have not read it yet.
It may be time for a turbo upgrade sooner than I thought. I wanted to try everything stock first.

 

[BobS]

You have too many variables involved. Was this condition present the last time you had the turbo off? Is the air inlet filter or piping forming any restrictions? Is the exhaust side of the turbine balanced with the exhaust equally loading the turbine wheel through both ports? Remember hot engine oil dumping into the intake will cause a run away engine that won't shut down unless you shut off the air going into the intake. The most common cause of turbo failure are a dirty air filter (wrecks the seals) and dirty or improper engine oil (destroys the bearings).

 

[beck]

You have too many variables involved. Was this condition present the last time you had the turbo off? Is the air inlet filter or piping forming any restrictions? Is the exhaust side of the turbine balanced with the exhaust equally loading the turbine wheel through both ports? Remember hot engine oil dumping into the intake will cause a run away engine that won't shut down unless you shut off the air going into the intake. The most common cause of turbo failure are a dirty air filter (wrecks the seals) and dirty or improper engine oil (destroys the bearings).

1) I have never had the turbo off. I just purchased the truck. I drove it about 600 miles total.
2) I don't know about restrictions in the air inlet. The filter may be a problem since I don't know its age. The inlet piping was all in good condition and part of the original 4bt to P-30 conversion.
3) There was a considerable exhaust leak on the exhaust manifold to turbo. There was only 1 nut homding the turbo on. When I removed the turbo almost 1/2 of the gasket was missing from the exhaust blowing through. So to answer your question, No the exhaust was not well ballanced into the turbo.
4) Some oil mist may have made it to the intake manifold but it was minimal. The air inlet piping at the intake manifold was clean and dry. I don't see a problem with a runaway motor with this minor condition. I was concerned because the air piping at the discharge of the compressor was greasy/sticky. I new that should have been clean and dry.
5) I am leaning to the bad seal problem. I could not feel any play in the bearings. The shaft spun smoothly and there is no axial or radial runout of the shaft.
6) I printed the turbo manual, and brought it to work today. Hopefully I will have some study time.

 

[BobS]

As a blind guess I would think that (2) is probably causing (5) in your summary. Frito lays new lack of maintenance extended maintenance program may be the culprit. The turbo will suck oil past the seal when the air cleaner gets restricted. Think I would run it as it is but it would not be a bad idea to recheck it in the near future. If it is still sucking oil then replace the seal.

 

[beck]

I stopped by the local International Impliment dealer tonight. I know the mechanics there. One is a major tractor puller. I took the turbo in for him to check out. He recomenced taking the turbo housings off for a good cleaning and then just put it back together. Then check the compressor discharge after it has some more miles on it. That's the plan for now.

 

[Driverswanted]

I have mine apart right now. The only signs of oil in mine is on the domed side of the bearing housing. IT is under the heat shield and looks like oily black residue maybe 1/32" thick.

 

[beck]

More turbo problems for me.

I have discovered 3 more problems with my turbo.

1) I can't get the exhaust turbine housing seperated from the bearing housing. I have soaked it in penetrating oil with no help. I was tempted to try heat, but am afraid of ruining everything. The Holset manual says to tap it off with a soft hammer. It laughs at that. I tried a regular hammer. I am afraid of breaking the housing if I hit it harder. I tried wedges between the housing and the oil inlet and outlet. It's stuck!
How do I get it apart??

2) I did get the compressor housing off and cleaned it. The I cleaned the diffuser and compressor wheel in the parts washer. I spun the compressor wheel by hand and got black goo from behind it. THEN I notieced lots of radial bearing play. The bearings are toast!

3) I attempted to flush the oil passages in the parts washer. When I put washer fluid pressure on the oil inlet or outlet it does not come out the other side. If I spin the compressor wheel it does leak out from behind it. As expected since the bearings are bad the seals are shot too.

 

[BobS]

First spray down the inside of the housing with a can of carb cleaner and let it set over night. Then get a plastic bucket with some kerosene and parts washer additive and try soaking it for a few days. You need a "shot hammer sledge" the orange plastic type they sell on Harbor Freight to beat on it. A metal hammer will fracture the housing. The carb cleaner will start to dissolve the carbon build up that keeps the housing from coming off.

 

[beck]

Thanks BobS.
I'll give that a try.

 

[beck]

Turbine housing is OFF!

I soaked it in carb cleaner for a day. I figured I would try taking it apart again before soaking it in the kerosend for a few days. I must have hit the sweet spot because it broke free. I won't have time to get into the rest of it until at least Monday (4-2-07).

 

[BobS]

I forgot to mention this but it is a good idea to let the housing bolts in but very loose so that you don't ding the impeller when the housing comes off.

It might be nice if you could take some pictures of your repair procedure. CHECK FIRST but from memory the impeller shaft MAY HAVE LEFT HAND threads.

 

[beck]

I forgot to mention this but it is a good idea to let the housing bolts in but very loose so that you don't ding the impeller when the housing comes off.

That would have been a good tip before I knocked it apart. :idea: I don't think I hurt anything but it did come off at an angle. I noticed the impellor was locked up against the housing. I tapped the other side then and it came free.

I hope to do quite a bit of this turbo rebuild at work. (Don't tell my boss) Cameras are not allowed in the plant. I normally get by with taking parts into work. The camera rule is inforced. If I decide to do the rebuild at home I will keep a photo log.

 

[beck]

H1C all apart

I have the turbo completely disassembled. All of the parts are cleaned. I ordered the rebuild parts today. I have taken some photos durring the disassembly. I will post them soon. The Holset manual really coveres the process well. There were only a few unexpected issues.
1) This was covered earlier in this post. I had a difficult time getting the exhaust turbine housing separated from the center housing.
2) Just a minor glitch. The snap ring pliers set that I have did not have a small enough pliers. (The bearing retainers are snap rings) I had an old small one that I did a little filing on to make it fit. You need a straight pliers to get to the bottom snap rings. I had a 45 degree one first and it wouldn't work.
3) There is another specialty pliers used to take the split seals off. These are a lot like tiny piston rings, but they spring open further. I just used 2 small screwdrivers and opened the ring for removal. I didn't see any damage doing it this way.
4) I seem to have a need to clean everything above and beyond. One of my favorite tools is a bead blaster. Some of the items are not supposed to be blasted. The bearing surfaces are an example. I used plastic inserts to protect the bearing areas and blasted the housing. This is probably a bad thing, but I just can't help myself. The compressor housing should not be blasted either. I just had to do the outside of it to clean the old paint off. (I did refrain from doing the machined inside surfaces) Cummins recomends not to worry about the paint that is attached, just paint over it. It has to be bare metal for me. The disassembled turbo is as clean as it gets. The whole automotive thing is a sickness for me. I guess I could start polishing the compressor housing.

 

[Elbonk]

Where did you source the turbo rebuild parts?

 

[GreasedPiggy]

Ditto Elbonk:

I've read but cannot confirm that the H1C,D,E can be serviced with the HX35W/40W & HY35 kit. If this is true, the HX/Y kits are on E-Bay.

(Got my turbine housing soaking right now, hoping to find that "sweet spot" in a couple of days, thanks Beck). (that sucker seems WELDED).

 

[beck]

Here is my Holset supplier

I did a search on the Holset site for my area suppliers. This was the most convenient for me.
Area Diesel Service Inc.
North on University
Carlinville, IL 62626
Tel: 800 637 2658
I had good service from them. They had the rebuild kit in stock. The rebuild kit was a Holset part. The only part I did not like was the exhaust to turbo gasket. My H1C has the pulse input. The gasket did not have the divider in the center. I went to Cummins and bought one that did have the divider. That gasket is less than $2 @ Cummins.
The rebuild kit did fit several models, not just the H1C. The bag had the part listed to fit a different model. I called to confirm it was the right parts for my turbo before opening the pack.