[Ranger 2/75]

Ok, for my project I have in mind (4bt in to a CJ3A), having a REALLY shallow oil pan would help out- ALOT! So- I am left with a couple of options.

1:Shaving the oil pan and fabbing kick-outs. BUT I don't know how much room I have to work with...

2:converting the 4bt to a Dry-sump system. This would be ideal (size-wise), but I am not sure of some stuff. If I remove the stock oil pick-up how do I replace it? I.E. where/how does the engine get the oil from? If anyone could shed some light on this I would really appreciate it!

My continuing mission- to seek out new swaps and new limit, to bold fab where no man has fabbed before! (geekish- I know)

 

[Machman]

In it's most basic form, a dry sump system feeds oil to the engine through the oil filter mount. Of course, you can design systems to feed oil to multiple points on the engine, with multiple scavenge points, it's a matter of how much you want to spend.

NOT CHEAP!!

Here's some more info: http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed...&url=http://www.razorperformance.com/info.htm

 

[Ranger 2/75]

Excellent! Thanks! I think I can piece one together from Miloden Parts for around $800.00. Expensive, yes, but it may be worth it!

 

[JB Custom Fab.]

Do you have some part numbers yet, I am considering the same thing.
Please post pic.s & updates?
Jon

 

[Ranger 2/75]

I went to summit racing online and made a quick look there. I really need to get more in depth with the research tho. I have to find out if I can simple remove the oil pick up and tap into an oil gally for the pressure side of the system. If anyone know a good spot to tap into for the oiul input, that would really help. I was also considering chopping the oil pan and making a remote resevoir for it. I am a little unsure at this point.

 

[JB Custom Fab.]

I'm in the same boat,
I'm runnin Unimog axles, two solid objects can't ocuppy the same place at the same time.
It will be easy enough to move the sump over 8", but if there is any easy way to run a dry sump that would be better.
Jon

 

[robmobile1970]

I'd look at cutting the pan and welding up a offset sump before I tried the dry sump. I'm guessing you could connect some tubing to the original oil pickup tube and extend it into the offset pan to assure oil pickup. Maybe a few extra quarts to ensure it is never dry.

Another option which is unconventional, but may be cheaper than the $800 (someone quoted) for a dry sump pump. Would be to shorten the axle and one side and lengthen it on the other. It might be easier than you think. Since it is the front axle Vibrations at highway speed are not a concern. As far as the price of this it is totally dependant on what you can do, where you live, and who you know.

 

[Machman]

I went to summit racing online and made a quick look there. I really need to get more in depth with the research tho. I have to find out if I can simple remove the oil pick up and tap into an oil gally for the pressure side of the system. If anyone know a good spot to tap into for the oiul input, that would really help. I was also considering chopping the oil pan and making a remote resevoir for it. I am a little unsure at this point.

The simplest system will feed oil to the engine via the oil filter mount. That way you don't try to "re-engineer" the oil feed system on the thing.

Most of the "taps" for oil pressure on the outside of the engine that I've seen are not large enough to do the job. You'd have to use multiples, and even then I'd worry about starving something..

 

[Ranger 2/75]

That is exactly what I've been wondering. That would be the simplest. I was just unsure if it would adequaely oild the engine. I would hate to starve the poor little guy!:beer:

 

[Machman]

It'll handle it, as the oil filter mount is how it's getting ALL of it's oil now!

Oil path in wet sump is pan > pump > filter > rest of engine. That's why it's called a "full flow" oil filter.

 

[Ranger 2/75]

Thanks Machman. Your my new best friend:beer:

--all the other ones are in my head and aren't saying anything now...bounce

 

[nfmisso]

How about using something like a Moroso No. 25610 as a scavenge pump to fill a remote oil tank, and using the stock Cummins pump to provide pressurized oil to the engine. This would keep the majority of the system stock (more reliable).

Ref: http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=13939

http://www.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/37547/25610

 

[Machman]

How about using something like a Moroso No. 25610 as a scavenge pump to fill a remote oil tank, and using the stock Cummins pump to provide pressurized oil to the engine. This would keep the majority of the system stock (more reliable).

Ref: http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=13939

http://www.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/37547/25610

I'd been thinking along the same lines.. Only complication is how to plumb to the input on the Cummins pump. Otherwise, need to do something about it, because it's not going to be happy running dry..

 

[nfmisso]

I'd been thinking along the same lines.. Only complication is how to plumb to the input on the Cummins pump. Otherwise, need to do something about it, because it's not going to be happy running dry..

I was thinking of running a tube from the pickup through a notch machined in the block, at just above the pan to near the bottom of an external oil tank, probably a ½" of the bottom.

 

[dahoyle]

Another option which is unconventional, but may be cheaper than the $800 (someone quoted) for a dry sump pump. Would be to shorten the axle and one side and lengthen it on the other. It might be easier than you think. Since it is the front axle Vibrations at highway speed are not a concern. As far as the price of this it is totally dependant on what you can do, where you live, and who you know.

Nothing unconventional about cutting an axle, but in his case, he has a pretty unconventional axle, and parts for it aren't cheap, or easy to come by. If it was a D60, I'd already have it pulled down and re-centered the pumpkin, but no way would I cut up a MOG (if I had one, I'm stuck with the lowly HP 60) if i could find another means to accomplish my goals. As far as cost, I think he'll be pretty lucky to get a multi-stage dry sump going for $800, but I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't come out any cheaper by modifying the axle.

Really can't tell what this is in, from the pics, but is there any chance to extend the wheelbase a bit and clear the pumpkin that way, or set the engine back enough to clear, or maybe a combination of the two. Doesn't look like you have the stock torque tube. Not trying to second guess your build, because from what I see, that is one seriously sweet rig, and if anything, I'm jealous. Still, a compromise in the setup might just net you what you're looking for.

Doug

 

[Grigg]

How about a modified oil pan and keep it simple?
Check out this modified pan for a Detroit Diesel 4-53 (my favorite engine):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4-53...008QQitemZ180172206428QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Basically it's a rear sump with almost no sump in front of it, the crank does not protrude below the pan rail, so it can be about flat with no internal clearance problems.

Will a similar approach work?

Grigg

 

[Mallo986]

dry sump

you can go to a Cummins Marine oil pan and get an additional 3" of clearance.....the stock pan has a 11.41 centerline to bottom of pan the Marine pan is 8.26. the cost is around 850 dollars and would be all bolt together Cummins parts......Part number on the oil pan is 3349181 and the baffle is 3393287....pick up tube is #3393179.

 

[CumminsBronco]

sorry to revive an old thread, but have any of you guys that were thinking "dry sump" gone in that direction?
Louis

 

[Octamog]

sorry -- double post.

 

[Octamog]

My ISB 3.9 has a very shallow pan -- I think it's much shallower than what most of you are sporting on the 4BT's. I'd speculate that the pan would bolt on to a 4BT block -- can anyone confirm? If so, it might be an answer to some of your clearance problems! I'm guessing the deep end of the sump is only about 2-3 inches deeper than the shallow end.

(warning: extremely hi-res!) http://www.cummins.com.br/cla/images/alta/maxpower.jpg