Cummins 4BT & Diesel Conversions Forums banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 2000 ranger with a 3-53n nv 4500 swapped in it 3-73 gears n65 injectors it is impossiable to keep the egt's below the recomended 850f that dd recomends. I have been using a water inj kit to hold down the #, but its a slippery slope with power and temps. any ideas? Al.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
What Egt's are you seeing? 850 for my 6BT is towing with a load at speed. They should handle 1200/1300 without any drama's.
Just where was the location of the probe for the 850 spec?
May wish to re-post this in the GM engine section.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Oops, my bad. Forgot this is 2 stroke and will have a cooler reading than a 4 stroke.
Bit of surfing seems to show your temps are around normal for a loaded GM.
Cheers Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
567 Posts
The field handbook allows for 980 for the industrial model. As long as both your radiator and oil cooler can handle the higher egt's then I can't see why you cant run 980.:) Do you have a copy of the handbook? If not pm me and I'll send you a copy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
my book only has 850f as max temp it will run higher than that but i try to hold it at 850 ish thanks for the info on the higher temp ps this is an alum gama goat engine that engine 5033-6299 is not mentioned in the book that i have thanks again Al.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
ps probe is at the outlet of manifold this is a n engine not turbo ( have turbo--next project )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
567 Posts
ps probe is at the outlet of manifold this is a n engine not turbo ( have turbo--next project )
Ah ok, not sure if it matters that it's an aluminum block or not.:) To be on the safe side I'd run it at 850 or somewhere close to that.:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
ps probe is at the outlet of manifold this is a n engine not turbo ( have turbo--next project )
You might be pouring to much fuel into the engine and not enough air to help cool the exhaust , on he engine came with N50 injectors on the stock goat engine , The N65 would work well with a turbo because you would flow more air through the engine , plus side you would have over 300 lbs of torque to boost your towing capacity , how much black smoke your making , and how heavy is your trailer ? I am also planning to stuff a new surplus goat engine into a ranger , and towing a 2500 lb scamp camper. No turbo planned , maybe N55 injectors to keep the fuel burn down along with smoke , please PM me so I could get a few ideas on yours , thanks , Blaine in Mississippi
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
Hi Al,

With N65 injectors in a NA 3-53 engine would be over fueling. Start crossing the line with N55.

That being said the engineers were basically derating engine with AL block.

I worked on the M561’s when I was in USA back in the 70’s. The Gama Goat 3-53 was the inspiration the first time I saw it to put a 3-53 into my 75 Chevy K20 PU after I got out in 79.

Found two industrial 3-53N engine for $800. Used NP540 overdrive 5-speed transmission to go with my 4.10 rears. On flat land in NJ with N45 injectors the truck ran great and was getting about 18-20 mpg (verse 13 mpg with the Chevy 350cid).

Moved to Virginia a few years later. The hills where a killer. I had always planned to turbo the engine and purchased a RotoMaster TO4 turbo before leaving NJ. Replace the N pistons with ‘S’ 17:1 CR pistons. Started out with N55 injectors and later used N65 injectors after changing turbo exhaust housing. Ran this truck for 15 years until truck rusted out and the crank broke between #1 main and #1 rod journal (torsional vibration due to transmission gearing). So back to exhaust temp, I would cruise with a average load 700-900F and surge up to 1200F then back off.

How much load are you hauling. Did not say. I have grossed 12k lbs with my truck.

I would consider a turbo route if you plan the continue with the N65‘s. If anything - the coolness feature. Wish the NV4500 tranny was around when I did my conversion.

Still have my 3-53 and also a factory silver 3-53T industrial.

Bob G.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
hi the trailer is a 12 ft utility trailer I pull a stump grinder and tools 3500lbs or so I have been running this set up for 92k plus miles with no trouble at 850f temps .I back off some to hold temps at that or less I had the blower off last year and re-sealed re-shimmed it ( a pain)and it helped some with the temps the truck has 3-73 gears and runs along fine It just doesn't like pa hills dam thing can smell a hill , It runs a lot in direct loaded unless you are on the open highway and it will run od at 60-65 I have a turbo for it and I hope to get it installed soon ps had truck on the dyno a while ago and won the "most steady tq through the rpm band at 158 lbs from 500 to 3000 rpm. and 77 hp at 2500 .had all the hot rod boys upset. I also ran a gmc toro flow 478d in my 51 f6 dump broke three cranks at the front main in about 5 years but when they were running they were good , still have the front of the cranks in my "carnage collection" Hope the 3-53 crank is better than the 478 stuff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
hi the trailer is a 12 ft utility trailer I pull a stump grinder and tools 3500lbs or so I have been running this set up for 92k plus miles with no trouble at 850f temps .I back off some to hold temps at that or less I had the blower off last year and re-sealed re-shimmed it ( a pain)and it helped some with the temps the truck has 3-73 gears and runs along fine It just doesn't like pa hills dam thing can smell a hill , It runs a lot in direct loaded unless you are on the open highway and it will run od at 60-65 I have a turbo for it and I hope to get it installed soon ps had truck on the dyno a while ago and won the "most steady tq through the rpm band at 158 lbs from 500 to 3000 rpm. and 77 hp at 2500 .had all the hot rod boys upset. I also ran a gmc toro flow 478d in my 51 f6 dump broke three cranks at the front main in about 5 years but when they were running they were good , still have the front of the cranks in my "carnage collection" Hope the 3-53 crank is better than the 478 stuff
Thanks for the info , my ranger is the short wheelbase , keep it light to start with , making a adapter to use the F150 V6 five speed or the M50 R2 trans , and stock 7.5 rear diff to keep the driveline drag to a minimum , towing will only be use for times i want to go camping , so set up to tow in forth gear with the rear gearing ratio set up , the OD is for mileage and keep the noise down , what mileage are you getting unloaded , hopefully looking near 25 to 30 , next month I will be provided pulling out the gas four banger and start collecting the parts I need , and will still hook up the A/C , needed here in the department south , Later Blaine
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
yes your milage will be 25-30-ish with around 4000 lbs I'm using a exployer 8.8 3-73 disc brake rear. Have to move the spring pads to the other side for the swap, and get correct parking b cables, but you then have 4 wheel disc brakes. If I ever do this type of swap again I will use the m5r2 trans and x case with it . the 4500 is ok but heavy I think the "weak alum block" myth is baloney as I have more than 5 years and 93k on mine since the swap and no trouble and it has a hard life the way it gets used. It needs an inframe now, as it's using a lot of oil in town .What i don't understand , is when your pushing it ,on a trip to the mountains, It doesn't use hardly any oil.. The harder it gets run, the less oil it uses. ? Al.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
"What i don't understand is when your pushing it ,on a trip to the mountains, It doesn't use hardly any oil.. The harder it gets run, the less oil it uses. "

Al, The higher the combustion pressure the better ring sealing. Combustion pressure is design to pressurize behind the compression rings against to the cylinder wall. Higher the pressure, better the seal. That's why these engines like the high rpms and being under load. Low rpms and no load with cause them to slobber oil.

I would be interested in seeing someone adapting the M5R2 tranny to a 3-53. Assume you would use the goat flywheel housing instead of the normal SAE housing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,728 Posts
...
I would be interested in seeing someone adapting the M5R2 tranny to a 3-53. Assume you would use the goat flywheel housing instead of the normal SAE housing.
The M5R2 has an integral bellhousing - The pattern is "Late Windsor" (300CID Ford 6 cylinder and many Ford small blocks - there are variations - research and verification is recommended).

Also, old memory (and a quick Google search) indicate that the Gama Goat uses a 1960's GM transmission - research and verification is recommended.

As an almost 9+ year user of a M5R2 transmission, I can verify that replacing a hydraulic slave cylinder on the M5R2 is a pain - the transmission has to be removed <AGAIN sigh>.

Russ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I can understand the rings have more sealing pressure when under more load but the oil rings are on the bottom of the skirt this engine starts well in pa weather and only needs ether when lower than about 20 f I have been wandering if I should keep 21x1 kits on the reman even with the turbo ? my 6-71n in the brig is 17.8x1 and starts ok . I ran a 320 ci dirt mod for ten years in the mid70's and the hot set up then was the low tension oil rings ss330 something on the hastings set and we used crankcase vaccume from a smog pump for sealing stil have the car ...me and one other guy were the first to use a powerglide ,closed drive line with birdcages .and ran that setup til they outlawed it now I'm doing the detroit thing ....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I did use the hidden slave cyl in the ranger with the 4500 and 231c case,2 and had to cut a hole in the side of the bell for it I never thought about cutting a larger hole in it if posable for the fork and ball I wander if anyone has done this ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
On adapting the Ford transmission I am machining the bell housing to remove the complete bell and install a flat plate to bolt the trans to , the flywheel will be machined down to the Ford 351 diameter , it also uses the 11 1/2 clutch , kind of what the Cummings engine is set up to use different transmission s , this will be a simple set up ,
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
567 Posts
On adapting the Ford transmission I am machining the bell housing to remove the complete bell and install a flat plate to bolt the trans to , the flywheel will be machined down to the Ford 351 diameter , it also uses the 11 1/2 clutch , kind of what the Cummings engine is set up to use different transmission s , this will be a simple set up ,
Very nice, what ford trans are you bolting up? I'm running a Ford 5R110 adapted to the #2 housing on my 4-53T. I have a Deere housing that's flat and would make a great platform for just about any trans. I'll take a picture of it tomorrow.:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
The trans I am going to use is the M5R2 out of a V6 F150 , the reason is this transmission is what the engine swap guys use to put in a 5.0 V8 in the Ranger , you can use the stock driveshaft and the shifter will exit out of the same shifter hole in the center , also the stock clutch master cylinder will be a plug and play , machining the #2 flywheel down to a #4 . Next I will be moving the blower to the right side of the engine and the governor to the drivers side to use the stock throttle cable and the fuel pump will be next to the original fuel lines , not on the back of the engine like before with the goat set up ,
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top