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I'm very interested in the mount part of this as I'm just at that stage on my RAM 1500 swap. On my Dakota swap I used marine mounts and they were not bad but this year changed to the Anchor fluid mounts and it made a nice difference.
Dougal are you talking about having a custom rubber mount built or the steal parts? Its hard to imagine a set of the steel mounts that could be universal. I have done 6+ swaps and could not have used the same mount design on any two. I tried to sell welded mounts for the VW TDI swaps but they never worked for more than one application and even then some guys wanted to mount the engine at a slightly different angle or location. In the end I offered them as an unwelded kit and that worked very well. I think most guys that can do a swap have the ability to fab mounts. All my swaps are mid mounted, most of the vehicles I have done just don't have any structure ahead of the axle that's strong enough to mount to. As far as the vacuum pump for brakes, I have used the Isuzu NPR alternator on a couple of swaps. It has a good vacuum pump built onto the back of the alternator and has lasted for years with no problems. On my current swap I'm going to use the Ford belt driven pump because I have room. Here is the TDI frame mount kits I sold. and then the engine side mounts.
131081
131082
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
I'm very interested in the mount part of this as I'm just at that stage on my RAM 1500 swap. On my Dakota swap I used marine mounts and they were not bad but this year changed to the Anchor fluid mounts and it made a nice difference.
Dougal are you talking about having a custom rubber mount built or the steal parts? Its hard to imagine a set of the steel mounts that could be universal. I have done 6+ swaps and could not have used the same mount design on any two. I tried to sell welded mounts for the VW TDI swaps but they never worked for more than one application and even then some guys wanted to mount the engine at a slightly different angle or location. In the end I offered them as an unwelded kit and that worked very well. I think most guys that can do a swap have the ability to fab mounts. All my swaps are mid mounted, most of the vehicles I have done just don't have any structure ahead of the axle that's strong enough to mount to. As far as the vacuum pump for brakes, I have used the Isuzu NPR alternator on a couple of swaps. It has a good vacuum pump built onto the back of the alternator and has lasted for years with no problems. On my current swap I'm going to use the Ford belt driven pump because I have room. Here is the TDI frame mount kits I sold. and then the engine side mounts. View attachment 131081 View attachment 131082
The plan is a spec for location with isolators chosen to give the best performance for that location. As you know there are too many variables to come up with a bolt-in bracket solution for everyone. But if we can get a isolator specced out with the basic mounting geometry it'll make it way easier and hopefully better for everyone who is at that stage.
 

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Can I get this solution in two weeks? ;>)
I suppose this will not help me on this build but it will be interesting to see where it goes.
I'm torn between standard rubber block type mounts at an angle on the sides of the engine and the fluid mounts that I just installed on my Dakota which need to be vertical. Both have pro's and con's. I know the mounts should be installed above the crank centerline but on the swaps I have done it has not been possible due to the engine side interference or chassis side interference. My preference for a custom mount would be a 2" thick rubber block style about 4" square with studs top and bottom and built in limit strap. What would be really cool would be to then get the same mount in a different durometer for the 300lb TDI engines.
 

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What is an adulator ? No I did not use an adapter, but made a rear support bracket as shown in the pictures above.

I used a 1994 Dodge/Cummins vacuum/power steering pump. The first one came straight off the floor of a friends shop - a take-out off a scrap motor (too much fuel and not enough intercooler - melted pistons). After a while, it started leaking and it got replaced with a new Dorman unit. Can't find pictures on my computer.


View attachment 131079
This is the Dorman 904-810 vacuum pump - it bolts to the timing case and is gear driven. The power steering pump bolts to the back of this unit and is driven by a coupling that plugs into the end of this unit - it is very long and requires a brace. Probably will not fit if the starter is on this side of the engine.

I bought a new Dorman unit that came with both the vacuum and P/S pumps bolted together. Sorry, I'm too busy to do further research.

Russ
sorry i didn't proof... yes adapter..
 

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So is this the "Dodge" mount that people are using? Anchor 2469. The one that people are drilling holes horizontal to the plates? It looks like it fits all my needs with studs top and bottom with built in limit strap, if its soft enough after drilling the holes. Also very cheap. If I mount this as high as I can, probably at crank centerline and at a 30-40 degree angle will it do a good job?
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131087

This is a 1994 Dodge power steering pump. Note that a coupler is required (and it is sold with out a cap for the reservoir). Ir bolts to the back of the vacuum pump in the pictures i posted above.

The vacuum pump requires an oil line (it drains into the front timing case). The power steering pump is lubricated by the power steering fluid.

I've found complete vacuum/PS units for sale on Ebay. The add said "Rebuilt", but the picture showed the hoses cut off. I was unable to copy that picture. Buyer beware...

Russ
 

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So is this the "Dodge" mount that people are using? Anchor 2469.
Anchor 2469 is for the Dodge V-8 trucks. I use Anchor 2710 motor mounts, they are for the Dodge 1989-1993 Cummins trucks - a bit heavier duty.

Russ
 

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I wonder if the V8 one would actually work better for the lighter 4BT than the 6BT one. May do a better job of vibration reduction.
 

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Lots of interesting info coming out here. if you are using a Dodge Cummins adapter plate, the starter will be on the driver's side. That in combo with the vacuum/power steering pump takes up all the room on that side of the engine. Usually requires a modified starter to even make that work. There would be zero room for a mid engine mount with that setup unless it could be designed to be away from the power steering pump. Also, when using the pump combo, you must consider which injection pump you have. None of the stock Dodge power steering pumps will fit with the P7100. Requires a small round reservoir can and a remote supply. That is true even it you didn't have the vacuum pump in the lineup. When using the vacuum combo, you only need the small round reservoir only since the power steering pump has a special coupler on it. We've had several members go through this ordeal. Now the VE pump will clear the Dodge combo and there the only issue might be starter to pump clearance. You can read member Tinker's thread and see what he went through just to fit the combo unit. Land Rover Disco2: Out with the old, in with the 4BT! Dougal showed an industrial engine but it makes not difference in the block whether it is industrial or not. There were only 2 blocks for the 4bt, the original and STORM, and the mounting bosses are the same on both. Seems the main issue of this thread was controlling engine vibration. The normal angled style engine mounts have never proven to be very good at that. The rubber compound in the isolator is usually too stiff and transfers too much vibration to the frame. The Lord type mounts have been the standard for reducing vibration transfer. That company build aircraft engine mounts and as you know many propeller aircraft engines are 4 cylinder. The industrial mounting system with the SAE setup is a good one but not sure how well it controls vibration transfer. It is a 3 point mounting system with 2 hockey puck style isolators at the rear and one of possibly several types up front. Would need an engine/transmission set up in a lab to test each type of mount and see what degree of reduction they provide. Since the 3 point mounts were used in applications like generators I suspect they do a decent job. We just don't have many members who run the SAE mounts. On that system, there were at least 3 types of the front mount. One with a single puck, one with 2 pucks, and one with a special horizontal isolator. I think that last one was more common on gen sets. Here are photos of each type. Also, there is a whole section on the forum for engine mount that you might scan. Show off ur motor mounts.
 

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Lots of interesting info coming out here. if you are using a Dodge Cummins adapter plate, the starter will be on the driver's side. That in combo with the vacuum/power steering pump takes up all the room on that side of the engine. Usually requires a modified starter to even make that work. There would be zero room for a mid engine mount with that setup unless it could be designed to be away from the power steering pump. Also, when using the pump combo, you must consider which injection pump you have. None of the stock Dodge power steering pumps will fit with the P7100. Requires a small round reservoir can and a remote supply. That is true even it you didn't have the vacuum pump in the lineup. When using the vacuum combo, you only need the small round reservoir only since the power steering pump has a special coupler on it. We've had several members go through this ordeal. Now the VE pump will clear the Dodge combo and there the only issue might be starter to pump clearance. You can read member Tinker's thread and see what he went through just to fit the combo unit. Land Rover Disco2: Out with the old, in with the 4BT! Dougal showed an industrial engine but it makes not difference in the block whether it is industrial or not. There were only 2 blocks for the 4bt, the original and STORM, and the mounting bosses are the same on both. Seems the main issue of this thread was controlling engine vibration. The normal angled style engine mounts have never proven to be very good at that. The rubber compound in the isolator is usually too stiff and transfers too much vibration to the frame. The Lord type mounts have been the standard for reducing vibration transfer. That company build aircraft engine mounts and as you know many propeller aircraft engines are 4 cylinder. The industrial mounting system with the SAE setup is a good one but not sure how well it controls vibration transfer. It is a 3 point mounting system with 2 hockey puck style isolators at the rear and one of possibly several types up front. Would need an engine/transmission set up in a lab to test each type of mount and see what degree of reduction they provide. Since the 3 point mounts were used in applications like generators I suspect they do a decent job. We just don't have many members who run the SAE mounts. On that system, there were at least 3 types of the front mount. One with a single puck, one with 2 pucks, and one with a special horizontal isolator. I think that last one was more common on gen sets. Here are photos of each type. Also, there is a whole section on the forum for engine mount that you might scan. Show off ur motor mounts.

FanTastic Information: Thanks a Million. If my old body will comply I'll have the Engine complete by the end of the week. The thought is just measuring is I think i can can do both the V-pump/PSP combo and a dodge starter
BOSCHSR6519N
It is great to know that they did 3 point the motors in applications. that would make it one mount using the front and one on each side on the back.. I have been reading so much.. I think my eyeballs are going to fall out from the LED light from the sceen... I'll read land rover story. after I get back from the heart doctor. Thanks a million again.
 

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1964 Chevy C10, Cummins ISB170, Allison 1000 5 speed, full float 9”, ECU Tune, 5/7” static drop
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The ISB 4BT I have from factory had two puck style isolators at the front and are on a 45 degree angle just below crank centerline. The front pucks are super soft and do not tighten down, they have a spacer between the top of mount and the nut. This allows the mount to lift 3/8” or so. The rear mounts were mounted on bellhousing above the crankshaft center line and where mounted vertical. The rear mounts where huge and would not fit any applications as they would mount in the floor board where your go pedal would be, unless used on a bread van. The ISB 4cylinder in my application cannot have mounts on the side of block, need to use bellhousing mounts and need to be below Crank center line, my application is just out of space unless I do major rework. I am also thinking about the anchor 2469 at the bellhousing. I used 1.75” polyurethane and it’s horrible. The spacing on frame rails for full-size Chevy trucks from 1960-1987 is 25.5” inside rails over front axle centerline. 29” outside to outside rails.
 

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I wonder if the V8 one would actually work better for the lighter 4BT than the 6BT one. May do a better job of vibration reduction.
The dodge V8 ones are what was actually used in the Ford/4BT breadvans. They are fairly small, they fail often.

The 89-93 Dodge diesel mounts are much larger, more appropriately 4BT sized IMO. But they don't have much give to them therefore you drill some holes and you're good to go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
Still got questions that need answered:

  1. Are you guys mounting the engines dead-centre or offset?
  2. What is the typical inside width on your frame-rails?
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Can I get this solution in two weeks? ;>)
I suppose this will not help me on this build but it will be interesting to see where it goes.
I'm torn between standard rubber block type mounts at an angle on the sides of the engine and the fluid mounts that I just installed on my Dakota which need to be vertical. Both have pro's and con's. I know the mounts should be installed above the crank centerline but on the swaps I have done it has not been possible due to the engine side interference or chassis side interference. My preference for a custom mount would be a 2" thick rubber block style about 4" square with studs top and bottom and built in limit strap. What would be really cool would be to then get the same mount in a different durometer for the 300lb TDI engines.
The sooner we can get some fitment info, the sooner we can get it rolling. IMO for rubber mounts 45 degrees is the go. But I'm hoping to learn something from this process.

Is your engine centred or offset?
What is the inside width of your frame rails?
 

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The dodge V8 ones are what was actually used in the Ford/4BT breadvans. They are fairly small, they fail often.
The 89-93 Dodge diesel mounts are much larger, more appropriately 4BT sized IMO. But they don't have much give to them therefore you drill some holes and you're good to go.
Thanks for the clarification sometimes my logic is flawed...quite often actually but it keeps life interesting.

  1. Are you guys mounting the engines dead-centre or offset?
  2. What is the typical inside width on your frame-rails?
My Dakota has 26" between the frame rails and I'm running the Anchor 2698 fluid mounts vertically and engine is offset to the passenger side by about 2".
My Gen4 Ram 1500 has 31" between the frame rails and I'm trying to do the 45 degree mounts with the drilled Anchor 2710 isolators. Quite a bit of room on both sides of the engine which is offset to the passenger side by about 2".
131109
 
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Thanks for the clarification sometimes my logic is flawed...quite often actually but it keeps life interesting.


My Dakota has 26" between the frame rails and I'm running the Anchor 2698 fluid mounts vertically and engine is offset to the passenger side by about 2".
My Gen4 Ram 1500 has 31" between the frame rails and I'm trying to do the 45 degree mounts with the drilled Anchor 2710 isolators. Quite a bit of room on both sides of the engine which is offset to the passenger side by about 2". View attachment 131109

Why the Offset to the sides?
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Okay.

Rough specs:
Engines ~320-360kg (700-800lb)
4 cylinder diesels of 1 litre per hole.
Idle speed 700-800rpm (max shake).
Mounted centred or up to 2" offset between frame rails 25-31" apart (inside).
Need an isolator spec and location.

I'll see what they can come up with.
 

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