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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Guys,

I have planned to change my bad manifold tomorrow and wanted to see if you guys have any tips for bolt removal. I have already snapped one when penetrating lube did not do the trick, so I dont want that number to grow.

My plan is to cut the heads off and pull the manifold/turbo off. This will allow easy access to the bolts for heat and wax/penetrating lube. I can use vice grips or weld a nut back on and use the impact. I figure heat, smacking the ends with a sledge and wax quenching is the route I will try. I have not tryed this but apparently it works well from what I have read.

Have you guys had any issues heating the ears of the head to "grow" them so the bolts can move? I am a little nervous about adding head in one spot on a head, but I will not get it too hot.

Any tips are appreciated as I am not looking forward to having to drill and ease out more than the one that is already broken. Since this engine came from Canada it has alot of corrosion....I am not looking forward to this job at all for fear of it becoming a disaster.
 

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1. You need put heat on the bolts( not hot ) spray them down PB Blaster do this 3 to 4 times and they should come loose.

Or try .

2. Heat up them up and use a wax pen ,candle ect .The heat will pull the wax onto the threads.

Scott
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Okay, thanks. I have heated the bolts before with decent luck so I will try that instead of heat to the head. I am going to just take my time so I dont loose any more in the head.
 

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As noted don't get them hot ,if they get to hot than they will snap.The New bolts from Cummins are like $2.50 or so .

Scott
 

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Your Gonna Have To Heat The Head Bosses Dull Red And Dont Use A Impact Wrench.... Do It All By Hand..... And Do Not Install Stock Bolts Back In Use Studs... The Lower Bolts If There Stuck You,ll Have To Pull The Head Off To Heat The Stud Area.
Jmo
Bob
 

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I understand that heating the bolts only expands the bolt in the head but getting the head red isn't going to allow and lube to the threads.Also by getting the head red the bolt is going to expand as well .

I have done this over and over and only had I bolt break due to rust.The wax works the best .

More than 1 way to do anything ,the choice is yours.

Scott
 

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I have done hundreds of stuck studs and bolts.

Heat the darn stud and hit it with wax. Tap on the end while trying to turn the stud , Do this repeatedly . Quit when you are cranky. Start again next day . Worse case is you will have to drill and tap it out . Whatever you do , do not heat up the head on just the flange .
Patience is the key . I plan on replacing mine- and using high temp antiseize on the new ones.

BAM
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Your Gonna Have To Heat The Head Bosses Dull Red And Dont Use A Impact Wrench.... Do It All By Hand..... And Do Not Install Stock Bolts Back In Use Studs... The Lower Bolts If There Stuck You,ll Have To Pull The Head Off To Heat The Stud Area.
Jmo
Bob
Why do you say you have to pull the head? It is wide open to heat the area if I drained the water.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have three of the lower ones out already and one top one working....taking lunch break to rest and let aggrevation pass. I am going to take a candle back out to wax the other ones. I already heated the bolts once, so I will wax them after a second round of heat and hope that works. Four of them came loose with just vice grips after I got the manifold off.

I think I may try heating the head on top as that does make sense to me it would help. Several heat cycles on each bolt and head should loosen them a bit.
 

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I snapped an exhaust manifold bolt myself. I welded a piece of steel to the remaining part of the bolt and it came right out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Not sure what to do at this point. I have 8 bolts that will not budge. When torquing on them it is clear that the shank is twisting but the threads are not budging in the head. I may just get to the point I torque them until they either come loose or twist off. Heat and wax as well as heat and penetrant are not working at all on any of the 8. Frustrated!!!!................
 

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After I snapped off a manifold bolt and still had 3 others stuck, I sprayed the bolts with PB Blaster again and let it sit for a couple more days. I sprayed the bolts a couple more times until I tried again. When I got back to removing the bolts, I tightened the bolts first. Then I snapped them loose and was surprised that I was working on the same bolts that had been stuck 2 or 3 days earlier! No Heat!
 

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the upper bolt bosses are easy to heat dull red and then the bolts will come out. but.... the lower bolts are real close to the bottom of the head and the only way to apply heat to them is from bottom side of head, hence you have to remove the head. dont twist them off if you can help it as then you have to drill and tap new holes and to get them perfectly straight is a chore and best done by a machine shop if you want it done right. even with heat they still can be buggers. i only install studs when i re-asemble all my engines. and ALWAYS use never sieze on everything in this area.
hope this helps & good luck
bob
 

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One technique that has worked well for me along with PB blaster and time is to heat the bolt red, then let it cool completely, then penetrating oil and try it.
The reason this works is the bolt expands from the heat, crushes the rust, then cools back to the smaller size and the rust is looser.
If they do break off I weld a nut on with the TIG welder, that puts enough heat in it to repeat the swelling and shrinking cycle, a broken bolt will rarely win against the TIG welder, may take a try or two though.

Grigg
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I surrendered.....

Well, the head is in the floor ready to go to the machine shop. I worked for 4 hours with heat, wax, lube, the whole nine yards. I drilled the broken bolt nice and straight and it would not budge with a big ease out even with heating the head and going back to heat the remaining portion of the bolt to red hot and letting cool. From the bolts I did get out it was obvious the previous owner had them out and ran them back in with not only rust, but some bad threads. One of the bottom ones that came out had the threads rolled pretty bad on the bolt which was a tale tale sign.

Anyhow, I pull with one of the guys that runs the local machine shop and he can get them out and helicoil anything that needs it. My chances of getting them all out even with time setting were between slim and none, so I just decided to pull it. I was also curious of the condition of the cylinder and injectors so a tear down set my mind at ease since everything looked really good.

I did have one injector that spun in the head removing a section of material the locating ball on the injector rest in. The nut and injector were rusted together as one. I am going to see if he can fix that at the machine shop while it is out

This engine came from canada and had scale rust over most of the block when I got it. I think the amount of salt it saw just rusted everything beyond what is normal making things worse than they normally would be.

Oh well, [email protected] happens and I should be back on the road in a couple of days. Thanks for all the suggestions.

Chris
 

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One thing I really like when trying to drill out broken bolts is left handed drill bits. Drilling heats up the remaining part of the bolt. Since the bit is spinning left handed it is always trying to spin the bolt out. Quite a few of the bolts come out in the drilling process.

Does anyone have an available sorce for good quaility studs for use installing exhaust manifolds? I looked locally and have not found anything. The best I have found here is just the better grade of all-thread.
 

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I'm amazed you had that much trouble. Obviously you were fighting human error from the previous owner.
Griggs method and explination is right on.
In my expierence get the bolt as hot as possible without damaging anything in the surounding area and it will always come out
 

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why did you pull the injectors ? it wasnt necessary ? fastenal has the studs & nuts. also now that head is off might as well do a valve job so you know what you,ve got when it goes back on ?
 

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fastenal has the studs & nuts.
Fastenal told me they couldn't get them... My local rep is not up to speed on a lot of things. Do you have any sugestions on what to tell him I need? It has been long enough ago that I have forgotten what length I need.
Thanks
 
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