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Discussion Starter #1
I would like to use a crossover draglink but I am running out of room. The front axle is a Dana-60 and it has been shortened 5-3/4" to fit under the leaf springs, the yellow line is tied to the zerk fittings on top of the kingpins. The oil pan is 1-1/2" above the yellow line, the forward motor mount is 5-1/2" in front of the yellow line and there is 6 to 8" between the line and the pot of the oil pan. Currently the engine is sitting with a 3.50 degree down slope. My thoughts are to use a thinner oil pan and raise the front of the engine thus putting a greater down sloop on the engine.

I am hoping someone might have a better solution then those I have come up with.

This is the original draglink configuration; it could work, but it would not be power steering and there would be little to no room for shocks
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The following pics show the clearance under the oil pan for crossover linkage
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It looks to me like you are attempting to use the industrial SAE style bellhousing and front motor mount, but then you hope to cram it in a little old truck and run a modern power steering box?

I would suggest going to a Dodge adapter setup to mate the NV4500 you appear to have in there and using the engine mount location on the forward part of the block, 3 bolts on each side.

Move the engine up and around however you need to. That giant SAE bellhousing is going to cause nothing but headaches.

You can angle the engine whatever you want. Most are around 4-5 degrees from frame zero (flat area under cab), but best front driveline angles will be had with less angle. Basically you will never be able to run a non-CV front driveline if you have an engine angle around 5 gegrees. That said, the majority of 4x4's run double cardan style front drivelines anyway, so it doesn't matter.

How are you measuring engine angle? I only ask because lots of guys go off drivetrain angular measurements they took with a welder's protractor (+/- 2 degree accuracy) and they just reference the earth's gravitational pull. Both of those are a big no no.

As for your steering what is preventing you from running for a Ford tie rod and steering right off that with a modern power box? Your string appears to elude to you wanting to run high steer arms? You don't have enough lift for high steer.

I will suggest if you change steering up to working off the tie rod (ford style) that you run polyurethane spring eye bushings and make sure your frame is diagonally braced up front. If you use rubber spring bushings with crossover steering it will handle like a wet bag of sh!t. With poly bushings it should be OK. If the front portion of the frame is a flimsy noodle with no crossmembers or bracing like you have in your pictures and you're trying to turn largish tires that frame is going to twist up every time you turn the wheel.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thanks for your reply Snuggletough,

For an angle finder I am using a digital protractor. To find the angle of the engine I usually place it under the side motor mounts, at the bottom of the block, on the lip above the oil pan. The entire frame is sitting level, front to back & side to side. Which is where I hope to have it sit when completed, with perhaps a 1” rake.

Yes, the truck is 80yrs old. The Dodge NV4500 bellhousing & adapter plate was my first attempt; it measures ¾” smaller than the SAE-3 housing. With the engine sitting low in the frame and using Archer mounts the middle motor mounts gave me great difficulty with clearance of the priming pump, electric starter and power steering box

Your suggestion on using the front corner mounts would free up some 3” in front of the oil pan and that could help, but again the power steering box maybe in the way. I had to remove the front crossmember to place the engine where it sites now and then replace it with a homemade job which also supports the radiator and front clip. I am glade to hear that I could increase the angle of the engine up to 5 degrees. Although that seems like a lot.

Yes, double cardan’s are in the build plan. The last time I measured drive line angles the motor was down 4 degrees the drive line was down 11.50 degrees and the pinion was down 9.

A Ford tie rod & drag link assembly is something to look in to. The frame narrows down from 6” to 2-1/2” at the forward spring shackle and the twisting of the frame is of great concern to me. The below image shows what I am thinking for the front crossmember, it will be made from ¾” steel and then I was thinking of lining the inside of the frame rail with the same ¾” steel before I box the frame

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If your frame isn't fixed to a stand it will never be the same from one measurement to the next.

The 3/4" thick steel isn't going to stiffen things up like a tubular shape would.

Is the floorpan flat? I have not worked on a 40 dodge, but I have done swaps on the early powerwagaons and M37's and they have a transmission tunnel that is quite a bit higher than the floorpan.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
When you said flat i thought you meant level. yes the floor board is flat with a up hill clime above the bellhousing, but it does not have a tunnel in the cab, like the power wagons do, but it does have a crossmember below the cab that has a camel back look to it for the transmission; And I have drastically reduced its size to fit the NV4500 & NP205.

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Power wagon has a completely unique frame and cab to any other dodge truck. The tranny tunnel is alot higher on those and it has a crossmember that is very similar to what you are wanting to build. From what I have seen the only ones that have crossover steering have been linked in the front. There is a guy on here alex with a power wagon command car that is linked with cross over steering I know of a few others but none are on leafs.

I had similar problems when I was doing my swap and ended up using a steering box out of a fj60 and doing hydro assist as the angles are not ideal but that was only way of clearing everything.

If you search on pirate 4x4 there are some good build threads to give you some ideas.
 

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If you can raise the engine/trans which would require extensive trans tunnel work, it would solve a lot of problems, pan to front axle for example, raising body higher above frame provides other issues, however, up to 1" is sometimes helpful. Saginaw steering boxes can be made to be side to side by filing the skip spline with a 3 cornered file, box would be in front of axle, crossover steering linkage.

Attach front crossover mount to top of frame, pick up front mount from front rather than under. Solid mount mat'l(3/4" as stated) will end up cracking frame, best to use similar mat'l as in frame.

Most engine/trans combinations are angled about 3 degrees down at rear, eliminates other issues such as driveshaft angles, etc.

Ed in CO.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
If you can raise the engine/trans which would require extensive trans tunnel work, it would solve a lot of problems, pan to front axle for example, raising body higher above frame provides other issues, however, up to 1" is sometimes helpful. Saginaw steering boxes can be made to be side to side by filing the skip spline with a 3 cornered file, box would be in front of axle, crossover steering linkage.

Attach front crossover mount to top of frame, pick up front mount from front rather than under. Solid mount mat'l(3/4" as stated) will end up cracking frame, best to use similar mat'l as in frame.

Most engine/trans combinations are angled about 3 degrees down at rear, eliminates other issues such as driveshaft angles, etc.

Ed in CO.
I guess that picture of the new crossmember sitting under the frame was premature, aventually it will sit in the frame. Here is a pic of what I'm trying to work with, the 4bt would not fit with the original crossmember which also supports the the radiator and front clip. so I am attempting to support all of that in one shot; the engine, front clip & radiator.

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Discussion Starter #10
I am concerned about the size of the frame in that section it gets pretty narrow. I was thinking before I box the frame i could bolt some flat plate on the inside of the frame
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Discussion Starter #11
Power wagon has a completely unique frame and cab to any other dodge truck. The tranny tunnel is alot higher on those and it has a crossmember that is very similar to what you are wanting to build. From what I have seen the only ones that have crossover steering have been linked in the front. There is a guy on here alex with a power wagon command car that is linked with cross over steering I know of a few others but none are on leafs.

I had similar problems when I was doing my swap and ended up using a steering box out of a fj60 and doing hydro assist as the angles are not ideal but that was only way of clearing everything.

If you search on pirate 4x4 there are some good build threads to give you some ideas.
I would like to see a photo of theat radiator support on the power wagons; I think I am going to have to go with coil overs if I want to have crossover steering
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I thought about what Snugletough said about the corner mounts...And that is going to take some more thinking, not a real tall frame rail in that section either, but at least the radiator support is almost complete...except for reinforcing it

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About 5 years ago, I accumulated a pile of parts for a PW build, as well as doing one for a buddy of mine. I ended up building a house/shop and that project got sidelined until now, so I should hopefully have some stuff to post later this summer. Exactly a year ago, we went down to the Power Wagon rally in Fairfield Iowa, the goal was to look at 4BT converted trucks for ideas on how guys were doing the swaps. We took a pile of pictures, and see a common theme. The front cross members are removed, and a new one fabricated at the very front of the frame. The springs used are a 5 leaf pack from an 80's Dodge, with new hangers fabricated up front. There is a steering box mounted inside the frame at the very front, the steering shafts have a U joint or two. Both the trucks I looked at had crossover steering, with front leaf springs. They use the motor mounts half way down the block. One was a Power Wagon, one an older 3/4 ton WC truck probably more similar to yours. I do have pictures of these, perhaps an email would be easier??
 

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56 Fargo, not to sure on the weld quality on the steering box mounting. Would think it could also do with a brace at 90 degrees to the bracket to reduce flexing.
 

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56 Fargo, not to sure on the weld quality on the steering box mounting. Would think it could also do with a brace at 90 degrees to the bracket to reduce flexing.
Those aren't pics of my build, I took them at a truck show to get ideas. I agree, the welds don't appear to be that great.
 

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Karl, good job on the steel front crossmember replacing wood. Does that fit right under the curved core support? If you can justify doing a 1" body lift that might really help. Might have to lengthen (raise) the cutout hole in the rear crossmember. Steering box inside frame would be a good start as mentioned above. Some Fords and others have tie rods with a jiggle in them to get around leaf springs on a crossover application.

Ed in CO.
 

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Karl,

There at least two other front mounts available, wider base one is 4.25" from base to CL of bottom bolt, has Ford cast into it; narrower base one is 5.5", don't know if either would be helpful.

Ed in CO.
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Discussion Starter #19
Karl, good job on the steel front crossmember replacing wood. Does that fit right under the curved core support? If you can justify doing a 1" body lift that might really help. Might have to lengthen (raise) the cutout hole in the rear crossmember. Steering box inside frame would be a good start as mentioned above. Some Fords and others have tie rods with a jiggle in them to get around leaf springs on a crossover application.

Ed in CO.
No, Not a core support...just a radiator/front clip support; would have to support the engine separately....maybe off the corners
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Ed....thanks for the offer on front motor supports. I think I will be ok...I also have the support on the right (5.5" tall)
 
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