[militarytrux]

Hello all,
I have a 4BT with the T-19 trans set-up, I would like to install the ZF 5-speed in place of the T-19? people have told me this is a direct bolt in deal? remove the T-19 and install the ZF right into the existing clutch set-up.
If so what model truck should I get the ZF from? F-150 through F-450 seem to have them.
Thanks for the help....

 

[Jakey]

The ZF needs to be from a 300/4.9L six or 351/5.8L V8 for the proper bellhousing.
F450 would be a rarity, I'm not sure if they could be credit deleted to a 5.8L in place of the standard 7.5 or 7.3.

1987-1997 F250 and F350 are the normal sources
The ZF was also a very rare option on 1988 F150 and Bronco, and only behind the 4.9L, So don't overlook the boxy 87-91 style F150s if you're looking at wrecking yards.

 

[wingnut13]

Hey, I'm about an hour from you and have a "spare" ZF I'm not gonna be using, 2WD. You didn't specify which one you were looking for though..... What ya buildin'? -wingnut13

Forgot to say I think I may have a lead on a couple of these in the area if your looking, they sure can be hard to find when you need one.

 

[giezy]

The ZF needs to be from a 300/4.9L six or 351/5.8L V8 for the proper bellhousing.
F450 would be a rarity, I'm not sure if they could be credit deleted to a 5.8L in place of the standard 7.5 or 7.3.

I have a zf 5 speed with the pto fom a 94 superduty would that bolt to the ford adapter? it came from a 7.3 idi?

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

There is one more option as well which is a 6 speed ZF from a Super Duty and an adapter from destroked.com, expensive though but food for thought...

 

[DieselSchlepper]

The zfs 5spds are of two types: 42 and 47. 42 is the small block and it measures slightly over 5" across the top two holes. The 47 is much bigger, over 7" and fits the big blocks and ford diesel, the diesel has the better ratios for cummins. 42 is from 300, 302, 351 and fits the cummins ford setup and is the same as the Mazda M5R2, and T18,19 bellhousings. You have to use the 42 case unless you have the bigblock adapter from fordcummins.com and probably phoenix an d maybe advance adaptors. Someone can put the diesel gears into the 42 case but don't know who.

 

[Jakey]

^That is a misnomer.

The S5-42 is available in SBF bell, BBF bell and Diesel versions.
I don't list 302 because every 5 speed F250 with a 302 I've seen has had an M5R2 behind it. Only 1988-1991, then Ford stopped making Light duty 6600 GVW 4x4 F250s, thus why there isn't 300 six F250 4x4s in model year 1992 and up. Not all diesel units have the 4.14-.77 gearset.

The S5-47 is also available in the aforementioned versions from 1995-1997, and also Modular engines(5.4L V8 and 6.8L V10) for 1999-2001(when Ford went to the S6-650.) The modular version is usually referred to as the S5-47M.
It has more to do with the application year when Ford switched.
1996 Model Year, Ford went to the S5-47

Some people claim the 4.14-.77 ratio gearset can be put into the SBF bell case, but the input shaft that goes with the gearset is too short.(because of the shallower bellhousing section in the Diesel units.) It won't work.

The following links are ZFs website, with all the correct info.

http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/import/zf_na/startseite/sso/passenger_car___light_truck/pickup_driveline/product_catalog/s5-42/S542_Transmissions.pdf

http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/import/zf_na/startseite/sso/passenger_car___light_truck/pickup_driveline/product_catalog/s5-47/S547_Transmissions.pdf

http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/import/zf_na/startseite/sso/passenger_car___light_truck/pickup_driveline/product_catalog/s5-47m/S547M_Transmissions.pdf

 

[averagef250]

The zfs 5spds are of two types: 42 and 45. 42 is the small block and it measures slightly over 5" across the top two holes. The 45 is much bigger, over 7" and fits the big blocks and ford diesel, the diesel has the better ratios for cummins. 42 is from 300, 302, 351 and fits the cummins ford setup and is the same as the Mazda M5R2, and T18,19 bellhousings. You have to use the 42 case unless you have the bigblock adapter from fordcummins.com and probably phoenix an d maybe advance adaptors. Someone can put the diesel gears into the 42 case but don't know who.

You got some very bad information there.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Very neat... More info if possible, first I've heard of these personally.. Sae #3 seems to be pretty common with a lot of the applications out there. ISB 3.9, 3.3, 4.5 and the Isuzus would all be killer apps for transmissions ready to adapt to SAE #3.

 

[averagef250]

Technically, DieselSchlepper is correct in his assertion that the close ratio gear assembly can be subsitituted into the S5-42 SBF wide ratio case - main housing ZF Part # 1307 201 005.

To retain the SBF transmission input shaft, ZF Part # 1307 202 126, the close ratio countershaft driven (or constant) gear, ZF Part # 1307 303 015, must be replaced with the wide ratio countershaft driven gear, ZF Part # 1307 303 014. But the overall ratios (with the exception of 4th gear) get skewed somewhat due to the difference between the two sets.

About eighteen years ago I made the change for a particular application. It wasn't that difficult using an induction heater with a coil specifically for shrink fit gear removal.

For most of the engine swaps discussed on this site, its much more sensible to consider using ZF's 5 and 6 speed Ecolite series of transmissions. They have much greater adaptability than the S5-42/47/47M and S6-650/750 transmissions. The close ratio S5-200 is a little more "diesel friendly" than the close ratio S5-42 that was supplied to FoMoCo. And with the Ecolite series being SAE standard, its much easier to mate to engines without using special adapters.

That's some very goo information there!

I would not have thought the ratios would be remotely acceptable in a ford ZF if you ran a wide ratio input gear with the wide ratio driven countershaft gear and close ratio mainshaft gears/rear countershaft gears. It's good to know.

 

[ambulancechser]

For most of the engine swaps discussed on this site, its much more sensible to consider using ZF's 5 and 6 speed Ecolite series of transmissions. They have much greater adaptability than the S5-42/47/47M and S6-650/750 transmissions. The close ratio S5-200 is a little more "diesel friendly" than the close ratio S5-42 that was supplied to FoMoCo. And with the Ecolite series being SAE standard, its much easier to mate to engines without using special adapters.

can't seem to find a lot of info on the ecolite series.don't seem to be many around...at least in north america.the issue i'd have with sae standard is the size of the flywheel housing.even an sae #3,as i found out,needs considerable real estate over the usual adapters and bell housings from the big three.

i haven't even seen an ecolite in person...what do they come in?

 

[Jakey]

As far as putting a 4.14-0.77 gearset in with the 5.72-0.76 input shaft and countershaft driven sprocket goes, it really won't make sense. I have attached the ZF chart listing gear ratios and the respective gear counts. Note that the gear counts for 4th/Direct are the Input(listed as speed gear) and countershaft driven gear tooth count.

A little math, if you do the 4.14-0.77 gearset with the 5.72-0.76 input gear and countershaft driven gear.

All are :1
5.72 First
3.27 Second
1.96 Third
1.00 Fourth
1.06 Fifth

All math was performed per this example

45 ÷ 27=1.666
1.666 X Speed Gear Tooth Count = ♫
♫ ÷ Counter Gear Tooth Count = Final Ratio

Or in one equation ((45÷27)X Speed Gear Tooth Count)÷Counter Gear Tooth Count = Final Ratio

 

[DieselSchlepper]

You got some very bad information there.

Knew was being in general slightly inaccurate. I couldn't find the original sources because the links wouldn't load, but I was trying to get to the truth because had read somewhere there is a lot more to this. Thanks for all the great info. Maybe this should go in the stickies. :beer:


In general the S in the ZF S5-42 model name is short for synchronized, the 5 designates the number of speeds (not counting reverse), and the 42 stands for the ZF's torque capacity of 420 lb-ft. An external slave cylinder was used on early '87 ZF models. Since it is on the outside of the bellhousing, it can be replaced without removing the transmission.


Here's some data I found: http://www.high-impact.net/transmission_and_gear/zf_5&6spd.htm

They distinguish between the "Big Block, Windsor, Diesel, and FE" blocks.


ZF Transmission Data Summary


S5-42 Gas Units

• Model Year 1987 - 1995

• 1992 and newer applications have the electronic speedo.

• On all 4 x 4 and Superduty applications, the speedo cable connects to either the parking brake or the transfer case.

• 1987-1991 4 x 2 applications have a 7 or 8 tooth speedo that connects via the transmission.

• 4 x 4 units are used in 4 x 2 superduty applications.

• If a 4 x 2 vehicle is equipped with electronic speedo, use O.E. speedo plug number F2UZ 7H183A.

• 1307 050 064ZW only used in UPS vehicles.

• S5-42 units are not interchangeable with S5-47 units.

• Gas units must use ZF recommended Dexron Il/MERCON® XT-2 QDX or DDX equivalent.

• Available in 4.9/5.8 engine as well as 7.5 Gas

• 5.72-.076 ratio

• 4WD: 31 spl output

• 2WD trans 619mm OAL to Flange



S5-42 Diesel Units

• Ratios avail 5.72-0.76 4.14-0.77

• 6.9 / 7/3 engines

• Model Year 1987 – 1994-1/2

• 1992 and newer applications have the electronic speedo.

• On all 4 x 4 and Superduty applications, the speedo cable connects to either the parking brake or the transfer case.

• 1987-1991 4 x 2 applications have a 7 or 8 tooth speedo that connects via the transmission.

• 4 x 4 units are used in 4 x 2 Superduty applications.

• If a 4 x 2 vehicle is equipped with electronic speedo, use O.E. speedo plug number F2UZ 7H183A.

• 1307 050 103ZW only used in UPS vehicles.

• S5-42 units are not interchangeable with S5-47 units.

• Diesel units must use ZF recommended Dexron Il/MERCON® XT-2 QDX or DDX equivalent

• 4WD: 31 spl output.

• 2WD trans 619mm OAL to Flange



S5-47 Gas Units

• Model Year 1996 - 1997

• 1317 050 007 and 1317 050 013 [7.5 Gas Units] are 100% interchangeable.

(What is different about the 1317 050 006 7.5 unit?)

• S5-47 units are not interchangeable with S5-42 units.

• Gas units must use ZF recommended Dexron Il/MERCON® XT-2 QDX or DDX equivalent.

• Gas Units are shown for 4.9/5.8 engine, as well as 7.5 engine

• all show 5.72-0.76 ratio

• 4WD: 31 spl output

• 684mm OAL 2WD to ctr of u-joint in yoke



S5-47 Diesel Units

Ratio 5.08 1st; .77 reverse



S5-47M Gas Units

• S5-47M Model Year 1999 - current

• S5-47M units are not interchangeable with S5-47 units.

• Gas units must use Ford Synthetic Mercon E6AZ 19582-B or Castrol Transmax-S.

• Gas units used with 5.4 and 6.8 engines

• All show 5.72-0.76 ratio

• 4WD: 31 spl output

• 684mm OAL 2WD to ctr of u-joint in yoke



Ford S6-650 Diesel

• Model Year 1999 – 2000

• Application 7.3L Diesel

• S6-650 standard torque transmissions may be replaced with the S6-650 High Torque transmissions.

• Diesel units must use ZF recommended Dexron II/MERCON® XT-2 QDX or DDX equivalent.

• 5.79-0.72 ratio

• Internal oil pump for lubrication and cooling

• Rated to 500 ft-lbs input torque

• Wt: 235 lbs

• 4WD: 24 spl output



S6-650 High Torque Diesel
• Model Year 2001 – current

• S6-650 standard torque transmissions may be replaced with the S6-650 High Torque transmissions.

• S6-650 High Torque transmissions may not be substituted with the standard torque transmissions.

• Diesel units must use ZF recommended Dexron II/MERCON® XT-2 QDX or DDX equivalent.

• Application 7.3L Diesel

• 5.79-0.72 ratios

• Internal oil pump for lubrication and cooling

• Rated to 520 ft-lbs input torque

• GCW 26,000 lbs.

• Wt: 235 lbs

• 4WD: 24 spl output



Ford S6-650 Gas

• Model Year 2002

• Application 6.8/5.4 Gas

• Gas units must use ZF recommended Dexron II/MERCON® XT-2 QDX or DDX equivalent.

• 5.79-0.72 ratio

• 4WD: 24 spl output

• OAL 842mm to flange 2WD



Ford S6-750
• Model Year 03-?

• 6S-750 Transmissions may not be substituted with the S6-650 transmissions.

• 6S-750 OAL 2wd 766.3mm

• 6S-750 ratios 5.79,3.30, 2.10,1.31,1,.72,5.23

• 6S-750 ratios dry wt 235lbs, oil cap 6.0L GCW 30,000lbs

• Rated to 560 ft lbs input torque

• Wt: 235 lbs

• Oil Capacity 6.0L

• Internal oil pump for lubrication and cooling

• 4WD: 34 spl output

 

[rustypeej]

zf-s542

I just recently picked up a 94' ZF s542 with the 4.14-.77 gears in it. I am curious if this will work work with my 4bt with the small block set-up?

 

[Michael Osoba]

Hey I have an Isuzu 4BD1 that has an SAE #3 bellhousing and then an adaptor running a T18. I'm wondering the ZF would work with this. I can't seem to find solid info. Any thoughts would help. Thanks.

 

[exsimguy1]

Michael,
The question you need to answer is, does your adapter bolt directly to the SAE #3 housing on the engine, or is there a 3/4" (approx) plate in between? If no plate, you can't bolt a SBF bell housing (ZF, auto or other) to it, only a ford transmission that is not a bell housing mount (4 bolts in approx 10 circle)
The attached pic shows the adaptor "plate" attached to the back of my motor that allows a Ford Bell housing type transmission (Mazda, ZF, Auto, etc) to be mounted to an Isuzu.


Terry

Mine has Chevy & SBF patterns now.

 

[Michael Osoba]

Hey Terry thanks for the response. I am fairly certain that I have the SAE #3 pattern with no plate... just an adaptor that goes to the T18. Did you make that adaptor ring or is it sold by someone? Also... do you know of any five speeds that would bolt up to the T18 pattern?

 

[exsimguy1]

Michael,
You could have your adaptor modified to take the early Chevy NV4500. It is the standard chevy configuration, and is similar in depth and layout to the Ford (NP235,T18,T19). I have used Ford/Chevy & Chevy/Ford intermixing many times.

The adaptor ring that I have is similar to the Isuzuswapper(?) setup used for the 4BD1T, but for the SAE #3 as you and I have. It utilizes the ring and a crankshaft extension that accepts the Ford flywheel/clutch, and then lets a Ford bellhousing or bellhousing transmission (ZF,Mazda, etc) to be bolted to it. The extension/flywheel is required as the bellhousing extends the transmission back 3-4" (approx) from where your adaptor would. The clutch mounts to the Ford flywheel, rather than the Isuzu flywheel.

I have no source for these parts, but they could certainly be re-produced at moderate cost.

Terry