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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi All,

After having installed a Fuller FSO6406A as a replacment transmission for my failed NV5600 in Jan 2008 I wanted to give an update. Still no issues with the Fuller after 30,000 ++++ miles. My Dodge 3500 was a 4 X 4, however there were no adapters available to couple the transmission and the transfer case so I have used it as a 2WD. Now it's time to get the 4 X 4 into operation again.

There have been others who have coupled their 9, 10, & 13 speed Fullers to a transfer case. These transmissions allow for a plate to be bolted directly to the rear of the transmission. The smaller 5 & 6 speed Fullers have a bearing retainer and shaft seal at the rear of the transmission which makes coupling a transfer case a bit more difficult.

Since I have been working on this for a while, I wanted to post on the progress of fabricating an adapter and shaft to couple a Fuller FSO6406A to an NP241 T/C.

If you want to see the parts list and installation of the Fuller into a Dodge 3500 go to http://www.sanco-bg.com/Conversion_NV5600.htm.

The following pic's show the prototype adapter I will be installing to attach the transfer case





Original NV5600 housing to couple the transfer case
 

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I want to do something similar but start adapter at bearing retainer of fs6 and go to np205 to delete coupler. Have mainshaft turned and resplined to fit 205 female splines. Shift rails would be tight might have to shift from rear of 205.
Hey chansey, you been gone a long time, missed the input. Some more pics of adapter when its made please.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Fuller T/ C Adapter

Thanks for the wlecome back.......been dealing with med issues from my past--Vietnam USMC 2-3-3 1965. Hadn't planned on getting back into this just yet, but I miss my 4 X 4. No regrets on installing the Fuller, and now started my 3rd year since the conversion.



I agree with you that a directly coupled assembly would work best with the bearing retainer machined into the face of the adapter. The output shaft of the transmission is 1.998 OD and the larger 29 tooth female planetary drive on the T/C is about 1.50 ID. I don't believe that machining the trans mainshaft would make any difference in a light duty truck application. Definately need a support base to mount to a cross member--too much hanging tail weight.

This is a work in progress and may not be what is ultimately used as the final solution.
 

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I want to do something similar but start adapter at bearing retainer of fs6 and go to np205 to delete coupler. Have mainshaft turned and resplined to fit 205 female splines. Shift rails would be tight might have to shift from rear of 205.
Hey chansey, you been gone a long time, missed the input. Some more pics of adapter when its made please.
That was my suggestion as well. Resplining the mainshaft is easy enough, and it greatly simplifies and shortens the adapter, not to mention reducing cost, Only downside is that it is not a "bolt-on", but I think it's a better tradeoff. Those reasons are why I chose to respline my Ally output shaft rather than kludge together couplers and adapters.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Been e-mailing Eric at Novak to see if we can re-use or adapt one of their existing engineered adapters to fit our application....jury is still out !!!

I am posting some pic's to show the bearing retainer and T/C relationship to the transmission. More for the benefit of those forum members that don't yet have a tranny to work with and can better understand what we are trying to accomplish.

Fuller FO8406ASX and NP241


FO8406ASX Output shaft and Bearing



Bearing Retainer



Fuller Trans to T/C Distance



Bare T/C case to Fuller


T/C Planetary Drive depicting full enagage on Fuller Output Shaft



A re-spline of the Fuller output shaft would cut the OD dim down from 1.998 to 1.488, then a single plate with the bearing recess cut on one side and the T/C bolt pattern on the other. By cutting the treaded portion of the shaft gains an other .75 and closes the gap to about 4.00 and a much stouter connection. The shaft will engage the T/C input drive another 1.25 so the gap will be closer to 3.00. Now we are talking billet material. Cross member mount needs to be there for support of the trans and T/C.

Been looking at the early adapters made for Dana and Borg for the 1965 to mid 80' market and there are are several adapters that have potential if you can still get a blank housing on the trans side--could be a real economical adapter. Another option is to have the bearing retainer made as a "spacer". One side has the Fuller trans bolt pattern and bearing race, the other bolts to an off the shelf adapter. The one I made up is similar but not as sturdy as the bolt concept. The other option is to fab a "spacer" for the bearing retainer and bolt it to the GM adapter--still very cost effective. Haven't got a clue what a shaft re-pline will cost. Will need to completely disassemble the mainshaft.

Just more options for consideration.
 

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Dont know if it helps but Jon at Jeds Machining said he would respline shaft for 100. I see that 3" looks awful tight. He built a 435/203/205 adapter for me that was about that length, so tight that 205 shiftrails hit flange on 203. Also sent him pics of FS6**6 bearing retainer/and removed for visual on building an adapter to 205. That was 1 1/2-2yrs ago. He was also looking into Spicer 3053/205 adapter. He might be out of business, not sure.
 

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Another option is to have the bearing retainer made as a "spacer".
Also like this idea. Easier to bolt together, easy access without pulling bearing race retainer out everytime, and also could be made clockable. Agree with MaxPF on resplining. Fewer "weak links". And the shorter the adapter the better for strength. I'm talking from a 205 perspective. What is the weight of the 241 just out of curiousity?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The NP241DHD weighs in at over 90 LBS. After handling it for a while it feels even heavier.

It sure would be nice if the planetary drive was factory available in 2" x 38 teeth. would require a larger T/C case bearing and shaft seal--oh weel, we can always dream !!!
 

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Looking at those pics makes me think resplining is no longer an option. Remember, there needs to be a spanner nut in there to lock against the rear bearing. After you figure all that in, you wouldn't have much in the way of spline engagement...

Having said that, if I had the Fuller output housing, the output flange, nut, and an accurate measurement of the output shaft from the shoulder where the threads end to the shoulder where the 38 spline area ends, I should be able to design what you need. It would be bolt-on, which would be desirable...
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
The nut on the Fuller output shaft really just serves two purposes;

1) Keep the speed-o gear in place with the yoke--we don't need it
2) keep the yoke in place with a 2WD drive apllication

When the nut is torqued, it is bottoming out on a large shouldered washer that seats against the shoulder where the splines and threads meet.

The bearing retainer is the one that sets the bearing pre-load by adding shims under the plate (available in kits with .005, .010 and .020). Thats why the retainer is so beefy

I have taken care of 1/2 the shaft problem. Took the large 7-1/2" 8 bolt flange yoke and cut it to a 3.50" OD and it clears the ID of the adapter. Has about .380 of material thickness. The original nut and washer can be used. Will make the shaft with a flange and weld it after a press fit. Will be used for example/mock-up. Will work to have a one-piece adapter with bearing retainer machined into the part and a re-splined trans output shaft. Will probably install the working model just for giggles.

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The nut on the Fuller output shaft really just serves two purposes;

1) Keep the speed-o gear in place with the yoke--we don't need it
2) keep the yoke in place with a 2WD drive apllication

When the nut is torqued, it is bottoming out on a large shouldered washer that seats against the shoulder where the splines and threads meet.

The bearing retainer is the one that sets the bearing pre-load by adding shims under the plate (available in kits with .005, .010 and .020). Thats why the retainer is so beefy
If that's the case, then I am back to voting for resplining the mainshaft. If I had the mainshaft, the output housing, and the output bearing and race I could design what you need. Should be pretty simple really...
 

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Have you thought about a splined coupler adapter with both the existing splines in it?
Then at the most you would trim the threaded end of the shaft off.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Dont know if it helps but Jon at Jeds Machining said he would respline shaft for 100. I see that 3" looks awful tight. He built a 435/203/205 adapter for me that was about that length, so tight that 205 shiftrails hit flange on 203. Also sent him pics of FS6**6 bearing retainer/and removed for visual on building an adapter to 205. That was 1 1/2-2yrs ago. He was also looking into Spicer 3053/205 adapter. He might be out of business, not sure.
Their web site says they're still in business--phone call on Monday to see if he has done any work with Spicer or Fuller
 

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Looking at those pics makes me think resplining is no longer an option. Remember, there needs to be a spanner nut in there to lock against the rear bearing. After you figure all that in, you wouldn't have much in the way of spline engagement...

Having said that, if I had the Fuller output housing, the output flange, nut, and an accurate measurement of the output shaft from the shoulder where the threads end to the shoulder where the 38 spline area ends, I should be able to design what you need. It would be bolt-on, which would be desirable...
Adapter would have recess machined for tapered bearing cup. Resplining will work. If your serious about designing adapter. Meet me halfway or take a trip to LV and can use my trans for mockup. Keep as long as you need. Also have 3053 Spicer. Could kill two birds. Think shortly this kit could be a money maker as more people realize E/F's are a great alternative transmission to the crap thats out there. Many are interested in a married 3053/t-case adapter also.
 

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I'm only interested in designing and building it if someone else is paying for it ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Their web site says they're still in business--phone call on Monday to see if he has done any work with Spicer or Fuller
Jon at Jed's was not able to help--said he had lost his **!!!xx^^ on too many one-offs and had enough experience at it.

If you need a shaft fabricated, this company can help.

Springer Couplings and Shafts in West Virginial has the tooling and equipment to make one-off type shafts or re-spline. He was able to immediately identify the pressure angle and tooth pitch of both the Fuller output shaft and tne NV5600 shaft to T/C. Getting closer to the finish line.

Spencer Couplings and Splines
Phone (304) 983-8492
 

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Yeah? What pitch did he come up with? I will tell you if he's right or not ;)
 

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Jon at Jed's was not able to help--said he had lost his **!!!xx^^ on too many one-offs and had enough experience at it.
That sucks, qualified machinist.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
The people at Jeds were really great--spent a lot of time with me on the phone discussing the project and the alternatives we had presented in this thread. Their adapters are made to order and they start with an 8 X 8 X8 hunk of steel for an adapter. His recommendation was that if I already had an adapter and it works, use it as is.

We talked about shafts welding, resplining and fabricating a new shaft. He was very much against welding on a shaft. His position on resplining was that if it's done right, the machining and heat treating would be expensive. He does resplining as a last resort. His recommendation was to fab a one piece shaft. He also said he uses Springer Couplings and shafts exclusively for all his outsourcing.

Springer spent a good deal of time on the phone with me as well and he too did not recommend welding. He estimated the cost of a custom shaft at $200-$300 plus heat treating at $100-$125. No one else even gave me ball park numbers.

Today I will be measuring up the overall shaft length, weld the flange on the shaft and couple the T/C for fit. I can then disassemble the adapter and be able to send the assembled shaft for fabrication.

Final destination is within sight !!!
 
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