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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone out there tried the 1 gallon unleaded to 8 gallon vegetable oil blend mentioned elswhere in this forum in the 4bt? Has anyone done it with waste vegetable oil VS new oil? IN case you didn't read the post or the website. There is a guy running a mix of of unleaded and sunflower oil unheated in his diesels. He is claiming a 25% + increase in mileage and power as well as that it works great. He and fuel chemist are speculating that one of the components in the unleaded (ethyl benzene???) is combining with the glycerine in the veg. oil and forming some type of "super fuel".
There seems to be proof that BIODIESEL works great with no problems. There seems to be proof that heated SVO works fine with no problems. There is Proof that in warm weather unheated SVO will run fine in diesels, but may be causing long term problems with carbon buildup on the rings etc. Does anyone have any data on the Unheated gasoline SVO blends using waste vegetable oil??????
 

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I've been wondering if this works, too.

The claims about better fuel mileage? Maybe, but I'm highly skeptical on that count.

But, the ability to thin / breakdown the oil to where heating isn't needed and you don't get the carbon buildup, etc. that some studies have indicated will happen with SVO use? Ok. I can see that.

It would be informative to run on diesel, then inspect the innards by either a bore scope or by pulling the head, then switch to the test fuel and run a while, then do another inspection. I'd also want to include an oil analysis in there, too.
 

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I think my primary concern would be what effects would the introduction of gasoline as a thinning agent have on the life expectancy of the injection pump seals and its other internal parts. Would this mixture provide proper lubrication?
 

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I can't say I've ever heard of SVO or biodiesel creating large carbon deposits. Everything I've read about using these fuels in vehicles say the exact opposite. As for the results from using it in home heating fuel, I can say that the burner is cleaner than ever after switching. The only downside to using B100 is the increase in temps from the higher burn rate. That's a little bit of a negative effect on the burners life-span.
 

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I think my primary concern would be what effects would the introduction of gasoline as a thinning agent have on the life expectancy of the injection pump seals and its other internal parts. Would this mixture provide proper lubrication?
I think that Bosch allows a certain percentage of gasoline (10% IIRC) to be added to diesel, but it's intended as an anti-gel for cold weather. Doing it in hot weather would probably be a bad thing.

I can't say I've ever heard of SVO or biodiesel creating large carbon deposits. Everything I've read about using these fuels in vehicles say the exact opposite. As for the results from using it in home heating fuel, I can say that the burner is cleaner than ever after switching. The only downside to using B100 is the increase in temps from the higher burn rate. That's a little bit of a negative effect on the burners life-span.
There's a LOT of good info about SVO, mixing, etc here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html And they've got links to some of the carbon buildup, coking, other ill effects of SVO there (most especially in a DI engine).

Now, there's a bit of controversy about the reports of coking, gumming, etc. because they didn't all heat the oil. But, in this instance, that would be relevant because we're talking about NOT needing a system to pre-heat due to the mix..
 

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There are 3 basic methods of using WVO in a diesel - blending, biodiesel or WVO. Blending involves using thinners to try to thin out the WVO to the same viscosity as diesel. Biodiesel using chemical conversion to alter the WVO into a substance that more closely approximates diesel. Most WVO systems use heat to warm up the fuel so that it more closely approximates the viscosity of diesel.

In all of the cases, diesel-type viscosity is needed to inject it in a spray pattern that works for the long term. When the viscosity is too great, it doesn't spray - it comes out of the injectors in large globules and is more likely to cause problems with carbon deposits as it will not burn properly. These carbon deposits form over time and can cause all kinds of interesting and expensive problems. If you are serious about using WVO in any form, make sure you spend some time doing the appropriate research and implementing your solution properly - a lot of other people have already spent the money doing things wrong. No sense joining that club if you don't have to!

WVO in all of these forms provides lubrication like diesel could never hope for.
 

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WVO in all of these forms provides lubrication like diesel could never hope for.
There is SO much truth to this!

Remember that in doing this to a already used dino-diesel tank you're going to dredge up some sediment and might run through a couple fuel filters before it cleans the system out (WVO has the amazing ability to clean up sediment and oil deposits in the fuel system). The filters will stop the tank gunk but post filter gunk will end up at the nozzles which should be checked periodically for a bit for cleaning purposes. Also be weary of the quality of rubber you're using in your fuel lines and some people have experienced "leaking" gaskets at the IP (the rubber gasket actually dissolves to an extent due to the chemical makeup of the WVO - they just need replacing with viton-quality gaskets).
 

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Discussion Starter #10
IN reply to the pump seals and the effects of unleaded in the fuel.. I would bet money that the cost offset of Free/super cheap fuel in comparison to $3 a gal. diesel would make up for repair cost. Test in Thailand have shown that single cylinder diesel engines Tractor/pump type will last about 500 hours before seizing when running off of unheated palm oil. Lots of people here have run unheated vegetable oil in limited quantities. The alternate to diesel when they don't have Enough vegetable oil. I would bet alternating fuels will clean up the engine when you run the reglar diesel.

















thanks for all the info
 

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I run a blend of filter/dewatered WVO (80%), K1 (18%), naptha (1%), and acetone (1%) in all of my diesels. 4BT and Powerstrokes. Powerstroke has the most mileage on the blend (20K+) with no ill effects so far. At $ .60 a gallon I'm not to worried.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
math

Assuming the following:
Used 4bt-$2000
uknown expense-$400
diesel-$3 a gallon
WVO blend-$1 a gallon
MPG-23mpg
You can do all your own work and replace a blown 4bt.

Savings from driving on a WVO blend will pay for another engine after 27000 miles. Some people worry about long term reliability. From a financial perspective Fuel savings is greater than engine cost. I am looking for a oil source now. Bojangles says "corporate HQ handles our contracts" The local fried fish/bbq place has really bad looking oil in their hopper. I'm actually considering calling the local waste oil co. and seeing what they'll sell a 55gal drum for.
 

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Assuming the following:
Used 4bt-$2000
uknown expense-$400
diesel-$3 a gallon
WVO blend-$1 a gallon
MPG-23mpg
You can do all your own work and replace a blown 4bt.

Savings from driving on a WVO blend will pay for another engine after 27000 miles. Some people worry about long term reliability. From a financial perspective Fuel savings is greater than engine cost. I am looking for a oil source now. Bojangles says "corporate HQ handles our contracts" The local fried fish/bbq place has really bad looking oil in their hopper. I'm actually considering calling the local waste oil co. and seeing what they'll sell a 55gal drum for.
Spend a few bucks on putting in a decent 2 tank system and you may run on WVO at least as long as you could on diesel. Why do a 1/2 assed job and end up rebuilding an engine early when you can spend a little more time and money up front and save a lot more throughout the lifespan of the vehicle?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
It is not out of laziness. I like to experiment. I like efficiency and getting things done easily and cheaply. Sometimes it catches up to me, but normally it works. I considered doing a 2 tank system with my diesel rabbit last year but ended up not doing it after the motor blew(broken timing chain). My truck is a 71 chevy with gas tank behind the seat. Heating oil in that tank would make the cab unbearably hot. After reading the website by the farmer who is mixing sunflower oil and unleaded I am intrigued by the idea. I may also end up heating this with some type of fuel line heat exchanger....I'm working on finding a oil source still right now.
 

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My truck is a 71 chevy with gas tank behind the seat. Heating oil in that tank would make the cab unbearably hot.
Don't heat the entire tank. Most people use a heated pickup tube - and heat what they are pulling out of the tank. There is no reason the fuel tank needs to heat up much at all. The fuel just needs to be warm enough to flow coming out of the tank - it should be nice and hot going into the IP.

I tend to be pretty cautious with my engines. I'll experiment with adding 5% diesel to the WVO in colder months (again) - that does wonders to cut the viscosity, making cold weather filtration easy. I'm still running a two tank system though. I'm not fond of the idea of mixing RUG with WVO - I like the fact that I COULD stub out a cigar in my fuel without starting an inferno! Gas fumes aren't what I want to deal with.
 

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One fella I know who runs the 2 tank system in a colder climate (Alaska) claims that WVO from chinese food restaurants is the best for the fewest chunks and contaminates. He runs his all year round but built his own coolant heated tank. The temp I've heard of most frequently is 160'F for proper flow and misting.
 

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The temp I've heard of most frequently is 160'F for proper flow and misting.

I heard it needs to be at least 180, 200 preferred
 

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I've run "clean" biodiesel ("Clean" meaning I bought cheap (on sale), unused cooking oil from the stores:dustin: ) in a '85 Jetta for 3 months about a year ago and it worked fine for me. Being "clean" and the temps not getting below 25F that OFTEN I was ok with running the Jetta without a heating system. However there were a few days where I still needed my gasser, for my S10 Blazer 4BT project I've been tossing around the idea of some kind a heater (like what they use on water pipes) for the fuel line and using a 2nd battery connected to the alternator to power it so it doesn't loose all it's juice.:idea:


Pantherman
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I have filled my first tank with WVO/unleaded blend. 2.5 gal unleaded to 15 gal WVO. The WVO was filtered twice with a 5 micron filter of the home water filter variety. There was about 4-5 gal of diesel left in the tank when I put it in. Drove it for about 20 min to get the blend started into the fuel system and see how it would do. Engine seems smoother and quieter. Hard to say about power. Less smoke from the tailpipe. Exhaust seems hotter than before. Not sure why? I need to pick up some spare fuel filters and then I will start driving it back and forth to work. We'll see what happens.
 

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I hope you find the time to reseach WVO operation and proper filtration & dewatering processes. Otherwise your engine's life expectancy just got a whole bunch shorter! Just a couple of 5 mic filters isn't near enough. Best conversions are using .5 micron, hundereds of times finer, because the micron rating isn't linear. And those filters are only a very small part of a good process design.
 
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