[wingnut13]

I think I may have my gearing sorted out. However I wanted to run it by someone who has some time behind the wheel of a 4BT powered vehicle. The setup I currently have/have in mind 4BT Ford t-19 (here's where it may get wierd for some) NP241 to a D300.(Box4Rocks) The twin cases get me a good crawl ratio right around 86 with my axle gear choice. Pretty good I think. Onto the axles.

I currently have a set of D44's under my Scout II they have 3.07's. I'm also running 35" tires. At a cruising speed of 65MPH I will be turning 1900 RPM. From what I've read on this forum that seems like it should be alright.

Here's the Q's.

Do you think the 44's will hold up to the 4BT or is an axle upgrade in order?:nuke:

Without an overdrive are higher numerical gears are out of the question? (It's a daily driver)

And what do you guys think about a box4rocks behind a 4BT?

What do you guys think.... -wingnut13

 

[DogDiesel]

Gearing and axles are fine

You'll need address your castor angle with 35" tires and the likely susp lift.
Wayne

 

[wingnut13]

Done and done!

 

[52wrench]

I'm assuming 4th in the T19 is direct, if so, I get 1992 rpm at 65 with 3.07 gears and 35" tires. The BFG tire site shows the revs/mile for a 35 x 12.50 TA KO at 599. I get 1992 rpm @65 if I work thru the math. I don't know enough about the D44 and rock crawling to know if it will stand up to a 4B, you might want to take a look at pirate4X4, those guys will know.

 

[CrewCab59]

The D44 will work but any axle can be broke if you try.where the d44 are week at the axle joints,when the wheels get bound up the joint will let go.

axle up grades,joints and after they the week link becomes your R&R .

The axles will be fine,just run them and carry a few spare parts if needed.

Thanks
Crewcab59

 

[Diesel Durango]

with the crawl box i would be extremely careful with the D44's. If you turn up the 4BT at all i wouldn't even try and run that rear axle. with 286ft-lbs or whatever the 105HP 4bt puts out you are still pushing it IMO. You could go to chromoly shafts and be a bit safer though.

It all depends on who's driving and where you wheel. The front 44 may last a while or you may start spittin ujoints and hubs out left and right, hard to say.

this is a never ending argument. if you aren't worried about getting home, i'd run the D44's. if you drive it to the trail i'd think about something stronger.

 

[JimmieD]

Don't know if I did the math right, but seems to me an 86:1 crawl ratio with 3.07's applies at least 8,000 ft/lbs of torque to your axles? Sounds like Dana 60 time to me....

 

[Diesel Durango]

Don't know if I did the math right, but seems to me an 86:1 crawl ratio with 3.07's applies at least 8,000 ft/lbs of torque to your axles? Sounds like Dana 60 time to me....

i'm not sure on how the math is done either, but if 8000 is the case, i'm pretty sure that's at or over the limit for the 4bt.

i would truss the crap out of the front axle as well. don't scouts have thinner tubes than some of the other front 44's? 4bt's aren't exactly lightweight.

 

[BobS]

i would truss the crap out of the front axle as well. don't scouts have thinner tubes than some of the other front 44's? 4bt's aren't exactly lightweight.

Dana rates it's weight carrying capacity in it's axle model number:
Dana 44=4400 lbs
Dana 60=6000 lbs
Dana 70=7000 lbs
Add 00 to the axle model number for the approximate weight rating.

 

[redhedbronco]

Passenger side drop D60s are cheap and you wont regret it. D44s, 35"tires,banked to one side and a little throttle and you"ll be replacing parts often

 

[Mikel]

I know of someone in Germany running a 6BT with 44's, and apparently the axles are holding OK. For light use, the Dana 44's should be acceptable, but I don't like having to worry about weak links. What bothers me particularly about a rear D44 is that it is a semi floater. If a shaft breaks, a wheel could come off...

 

[scout4bta]

D44's are at their limits with a gas motor and 35" tyres. IMHO. I've broken too many axle parts to recommend anything less than D60's front and rear with a 4B.

 

[wingnut13]

Thanks for all the responses guys. First off the 4BT weighs quite a bit LESS than the 345ci that it's replacing. So I know for most of you your adding weight....but with an IH engine, it dresses out at like 1100lbs! However I do agree the D44's are at thier limits now. I also think I remember seeing the D44axles rated for 4600ft/lbs of torque. One thing I have never heard of is twisting a D44 tubes, the 345 and all the IH engines are torque monsters (for thier time) and I've been running 35" for a good while now. It does seem all the jeepers are scared that thier 4 and 6 bangers are gonna pretzel the housing. It just makes no sense to me.

I have a Dana 60 Front sitting in the backyard though it's from a dually. I also have a 14 bolt rear, but they don't match. Both axles would need work, new gearsets, lockers and brakes. I would really like to install them but it's gonna hold up my project even more at least by a year. On the other hand I would really just like to do it once. This means finding H1 wheels with and new tires also. OH were does it end? Thanks guys keep the info comming! -wingnut13

 

[Diesel Durango]

Dana rates it's weight carrying capacity in it's axle model number:
Dana 44=4400 lbs
Dana 60=6000 lbs
Dana 70=7000 lbs
Add 00 to the axle model number for the approximate weight rating.

ahh, never heard that, good to know.

if you want to go cheap, get H1 wheels with 36" goodyears on em. They aren't the best tires offroad but they hold up well and can be grooved for a bit better traction.

Is this a DD or just a trailer queen?

 

[scout4bta]

Thanks for all the responses guys. First off the 4BT weighs quite a bit LESS than the 345ci that it's replacing. So I know for most of you your adding weight....but with an IH engine, it dresses out at like 1100lbs!
cut.....
-wingnut13

I think you might want research those numbers some more. A 4B long block weights in about 750 lbs, Add trans adapter, flywheel starter motor, alternator, exhaust manifold, power stearing pump, 2.5 gals of oil and your at or over 1000 lbs.
According to binderbulletin.org the 345A has a dry weight of 725.
Both engines are torquers, but the Diesel makes it's torque at 1700 rpm. That what breaks things.

 

[toolmanoffroad]

just so nooo to the 44s unless its just for driving

D44's are at their limits with a gas motor and 35" tyres. IMHO. I've broken too many axle parts to recommend anything less than D60's front and rear with a 4B.

I was breaking 44 fronts with a stock jeep 4cyl, nv4500, and an atlas 4:1 with 33in swampers. It would be fine for driving, but you will end up with enough torque to snap em if you even get them in a slight bind. dana 60 front and a 14 bolt rear if the width isnt a problem, and you will be much better off down the road...or off the road..LOL Im a big fan of over building the first time

 

[wingnut13]

For sure no trailer queen! What a waste of a 4BT that would be....oh wait mabey you were thinking trailerING Queen? It could possibly be that, I do have a trailer it should pull nicely.

Motors don't run dry, I'll stand by my 1100lb weight until I pull my 345 and weigh it. I could be wrong, it's happened before.

Anybody need a couple sets of D44's and a good set of 35x12.50 X15 Pro-Comp X terrains on new rims? -wingnut13

 

[JimmieD]

Wish I could have weighed individual items, but: have '67 Dodge D-100 Town Wagon that weighed 4,700 lbs with 360V8, cast iron Poly V8 hydro bellhousing [50 lbs], NP435 [100lbs], Mopar 8 3/4" rear and 15" wheels. Had Braden LU-2 PTO winch, aluminum case, maybe 80 lbs worth.

Changed to heavier 3/4 ton front springs, 1 ton front axle, added front swaybar [all that about 100lbs extra?], reinforced the floors with 1" square tubing, maybe 75 lbs worth, plus new floors of 3/16" steel plate. Probably 250+ lbs more weight overall. Installed 775 lbs of 4BT, 200+ lbs of NV4500, Dana 60HD [add 150 lbs] rear and 16.5" wheels/tires [add 100 lbs?]. Current curb weight is now 2.61 tons, or 5,500 lbs wet.

Don't know if that helps or confuses....

 

[Mikel]

What would be the weight difference from a pair of dana 44's to a D60/D70 combo? 400 lbs?
Thanks,
Mikel

 

[p14175]

The setup I currently have/have in mind 4BT Ford t-19 (here's where it may get wierd for some) NP241 to a D300.(Box4Rocks)

With a dual t-case setup and a 100" wheelbase, won't the rear drive shaft be a bit short? Or do you plan on kicking the rear axle out a bit?