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Anyone know if you can just walk into a Cummins shop or big truck repair shop and let them dial into the ECM and adjust the parameters? I know that my old man had a Western Star with a CAT in it with a big set of twins and when he put a different driver in it he had the dealership tune the truck back on a few various parameters using a laptop. They usually charged an hour shop rate as the tune adjustments usually only took about 10 minutes or less.

Also, in regards to the newer Common rail engines, I've read of people tuning the motor up to the 200 hp numbers simply by adjusting the ECM parameters but yet when they are asked how it was done, there is just silence or they can't say because their inside guy would get in trouble. I'm guessing that turning the motor up is a no-no for the guys at Cummins to do?
 

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I spoke with an Engineer with Cummins last night and he said that he was not aware of any differences between the ISB and the QSB of pre '07 except for the tunes. He said that you need the WHOLE file to basically re-write the ECM using proprietary software though and that for someone who isn't at the factory or in Cummins Engineering and software departments, a regular tech usually can't just reach in and start flipping parameters to yield a high hp tune because there are LOTS of tweaks within the system that have to occur to get the 200 hp tune out of the Brazilian engine. He also said that if someone can find the Brazilian tune somehow, that its possible for a Cummins tech to flash the tune onto the motor. Obviously you will have to do some dancing and talking though because I guess for emissions sake, in the US... If they modify the tune on the engine beyond its original design, people can get in trouble.

This being the case, I was wondering if anyone can confirm the mechanical internals of the ISB, ISBe, and QSB engines as being the same? Have you guys looked through some of the hot hot Euro tunes for the ISBe engines? Those motors are putting a LOT of power out as well.
 

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I was thinking that you would be able to buy the entire ecm rewrite file from a cummins dealer and have it installed as a normal upfront buisness transaction especially since it is going into a 51 so I don't think emissions will even be an issue. So what I mean is that I supposed that they would look up the tune and down load it. AlxJ64 makes it sound like I would have to have it alsmost pirated from a brazilian ecu. I might just be misunderstanding. But I don't know what the engineer ment by find the brazilian tune somehow.
I was out in the midwest for work this past week and swung by a Cummins dealer one evening that was near my hotel. Man, people are nice in the midwest! Asked the techs a few questions and they were saying that the QSB engines may or may not be slightly different so there is more to it than a tune. What would need to be done is those of us that want the Brazilian tune on a QSB will need to find the CPL of the brazilian motor and make sure the CPL of our motor is similar in parts. They said that sometimes nothing is different, except the tune. They said sometimes its just a turbo difference, or sometimes its lots of things like compression, cam profile, etc. They told me that a Cummins dealer is not "technically" allowed to put any tune on the engine other than what the factory build application inteded it for... and yes this is in regards to the EPA. The engines are built to meet those specs and the manufacturer is not supposed to "enable" the consumer to modify this stuff for any reason as it affects emissions, even if we are installing it in a vintage vehicle. The guys I talked to smiled and said "Technically".... which gave me a feel that if I work out the kinks, they will help me out. I'm not going to say who or where this was though. If I figure it out, I'll let folks know and we can go from there.

So what we need... We need to source the tune or atleast engine profile of the 200 hp engine.... Then need an engine that mechanically is close to the 200 hp engine... From that techs comments it sounds like anything Tier 3 and Tier 4 are the best bets in the QSB line of engines.

The last info he left me with... Buy an ISB 170 and just have them tweak some fuel and timing parameters in the engine. They can set the Throttle Position sensor to a point where basically if you hammer down or exceed X% throttle, the engine WAY adjusts timing and fuel and really steps into a different range... He said there are a "few" parameters that can be adjusted via the J-com port on the ECM but without having the factory hardware and software, they can't go into much depth aside from a FULL re-flash of a stock tune from Cummins.

Another piece of advice, they suggested getting ahold of some of the stand alone common rail ECM guys such as Narwhal and seeing what they might know or have avail. And also, he mentioned that they had a customer a year ago try to buy an ISBe250 or something hot from a Euro- Dealer and have it shipped in. Evidently Cummins has a red flag that flys up and when the engine came in, they had some software ugrades they were asked to install... Not thinking much of it, they flashed the new programs into the ECM... The tune they ended up with was a gutless wonder and the engine buyer was so displeased that he returned the engine to Cummins for a credit towards a used ISB170 and the engine was then parted out and used for other stuff. The ECM was requested back to Europe and they do not have the original flash saved either... sadly. Evidently Cummins KNOWS they would be in hot water for letting one of those euro-diesels into the states... once again... EPA won't get their head out of their azzes.
 

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I'm picking up a CR motor at the end of this month if all goes as planned. I'm all for doing some more digging to get a 200 HP tune. I am slowly making friends with the guys at my local Cummins dealership and I think that I may be able to have enough guidance to set myself up to be able to hack and flash my own ECM. I just have to figure out how to get my hands on the correct tunes, or at-least know what parameters to "safely" mess with.
 

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So, I was looking at the wiring diagram and electronic setup, as well as reading the troubleshooting literature from cummins on the engine I am buying. From the looks of things, the 5.9 CR and 3.9 CRs are wired nearly identical except that the pin outs from the primary ECM connection are reduced for the 4 cylinder. Then, looking at this literature on the function of the dual CP3 programmer, the CP3 pump manages the injection pressure at the rail based on the ECM input, if this controller I linked to below goes between the pump signal and modifys it prior to the injectors, then its possible that it may work just fine with the 4 cyl, or could easily be modified by the manufacturer to work with the 4 cyl. Then again I could be WAY wrong. It is however, a thought to consider. I went ahead and emailed them this morning to see what their thoughts are on the matter. I will report back with what I find. They claim 20% gains with adjustability on the fly. I would love to have something like that snuck under the dash of my project.

http://www.tsperformance.com/Download/pdf_Files/Misc. Instructions/Dual_CP3_Instructions.pdf
 

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I've also heard that the 5.9 injectors can work in some of these engines. That mixed with the pressure box, and maybe a larger turbo could possibly be the half-lazy way to get more power out of the engine... Or just be a bad idea all together.
 

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Steed, when you get your rounds of testing finalized, let me know. I'm slinging my 170 into a '42 Dodge Carryall with 4.57s and 38"s, the factory tag has it programmed as tq limit of 333... was wondering if you can bump that up? The engine came out of a FedEx Workhorse van.
Thanks!
 

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Talked to these guys yesterday. They say that their tuner will work with our US engines IF they have a Euro source of manufacture. Mine has "Made in Great Britain" all over it. The prices are more when quoted in conversation than what they have them listed for on the website for us US buyers. Looking at around $800 - $900 US. However, 520 to 536 lb-ft out of these engines could be really useful. I am going to wait until i actually get my project moving before I dump money into a tuner but its good to know that it as an option; along with what Steed has been working on too where he can flash and tune the ECM also. Decisions, decisions.
 
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