Cummins 4BT & Diesel Conversions Forums banner

21 - 40 of 48 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
So, I was looking at the wiring diagram and electronic setup, as well as reading the troubleshooting literature from cummins on the engine I am buying. From the looks of things, the 5.9 CR and 3.9 CRs are wired nearly identical except that the pin outs from the primary ECM connection are reduced for the 4 cylinder. Then, looking at this literature on the function of the dual CP3 programmer, the CP3 pump manages the injection pressure at the rail based on the ECM input, if this controller I linked to below goes between the pump signal and modifys it prior to the injectors, then its possible that it may work just fine with the 4 cyl, or could easily be modified by the manufacturer to work with the 4 cyl. Then again I could be WAY wrong. It is however, a thought to consider. I went ahead and emailed them this morning to see what their thoughts are on the matter. I will report back with what I find. They claim 20% gains with adjustability on the fly. I would love to have something like that snuck under the dash of my project.

http://www.tsperformance.com/Download/pdf_Files/Misc. Instructions/Dual_CP3_Instructions.pdf
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
the only thing the ts does is increase rail pressure by modifying rail pressure sensor signal. which can be good or bad, anything much over 24k is asking for cracked injector bodies and injector rattle.

that being said, larger nozzles, WITH a pressure box will definately flow more fuel, but timing and duration of the injection event contribute more to power than just sheer amount of fuel injected.

however, a pressure box is better than nothing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
I've also heard that the 5.9 injectors can work in some of these engines. That mixed with the pressure box, and maybe a larger turbo could possibly be the half-lazy way to get more power out of the engine... Or just be a bad idea all together.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
good to know. im going to be picking up a common rail 5.9 harness soon. most likely makiong it work on a 3.9. just removing the 2 pairs of injector wires. wonder if the 3.9 ecu has the same connector as the dodge trucks that goes to the body side? that would be nice to just plug in a dodge ctd harness and it work. does anyone have the wiring diagram for the 3.9 they would share?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
ISB cal into a QSB

Just a quick FYI, it isn't possible to put a truck or bus cal into the QSB4.5 ECM. The 4.5 uses the CM850, when you put an industrial cal into the CM850 it writes to some memory in the ECM which is read only and can not be erased (Not even with factory tools), you can recal with any different industrial cal but you can't put an on-highway cal into it.

You can however, put an industrial cal into an ISB ECM, but you won't be able to change it back!

This means that to convert a QSB to ISB you need to replace the ECM with one that hasn't had an Industrial Cal in it. I'm not sure where Marine falls into all this, would imagine the same as Industrial, haven't had much to do with them - I know the CM850 is used on the B5.9 marine engine. Wasn't aware of a 4.5L marine engine? Marine engine's usually push much more power but this is because they don't have to worry about NOx, so they can burn much hotter. This means a marine cal will never meet EPA / Eu emissions, but will always make more power and less black smoke.

For the 4.5 there are some fairly high rated cal's, there's a truck cal which pushed 210bhp, I think the highest rated bus is 185. I'm not sure how well the ISB cal would work with QSB, the turbo's are different (Or at least they ususally are).
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,157 Posts
Just a quick FYI, it isn't possible to put a truck or bus cal into the QSB4.5 ECM. The 4.5 uses the CM850, when you put an industrial cal into the CM850 it writes to some memory in the ECM which is read only and can not be erased (Not even with factory tools), you can recal with any different industrial cal but you can't put an on-highway cal into it.
Now if somebody could identify the PROM chip [Program Recall Only Memory] and substitute/replace it with a compatible EEPROM chip [Electrically Erasable Programmable Read-Only Memory] it should work in any direction.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
This must be the ECM we are looking for.
Cool little clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwmldy8ADvg
I have a customer in Brazil who builds performance cars so I have asked him to look into this.
I would like to just get the whole ECM from Brazil and try it out.
It looks like all the same connections.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
i have been working on a group buy from narwhal they have comon rail standalone....


we would need to have a large group i think 10k + to make it worth their while.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,673 Posts
I have remapped my work car myself. But it was a quite simple program structure (around 55 maps) which was good as I had to nut them all out myself.
The tricky part is the checksumm, which is a calculated key placed in the code to verify that it is correct. If the ECU requires a checksumm and you don't get it right, then it won't start.

Have any commonrail 6 cyl tuners been given a go at the 4's?
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
729 Posts
Old Post but I thought I would add I modified my Calibration to 4000 RPMs. Haven't tested it yet but I bought a second engine so I can use it for testing

20664563_1091620880971816_3364592392508614384_n.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Steed, when you get your rounds of testing finalized, let me know. I'm slinging my 170 into a '42 Dodge Carryall with 4.57s and 38"s, the factory tag has it programmed as tq limit of 333... was wondering if you can bump that up? The engine came out of a FedEx Workhorse van.
Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
A company called tunit from Europe has a "tuner" that claims to increase power up to 200-206 hp and torque was raised as well. They say it's for the isbe 170 which from what I've found it is the same as the isb170. Being form Europe I'd contact the people to make sure the isb and isbe are the same before paying the shipping all the way over the pond.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Talked to these guys yesterday. They say that their tuner will work with our US engines IF they have a Euro source of manufacture. Mine has "Made in Great Britain" all over it. The prices are more when quoted in conversation than what they have them listed for on the website for us US buyers. Looking at around $800 - $900 US. However, 520 to 536 lb-ft out of these engines could be really useful. I am going to wait until i actually get my project moving before I dump money into a tuner but its good to know that it as an option; along with what Steed has been working on too where he can flash and tune the ECM also. Decisions, decisions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Do you think you could send me some dimensions for the exhaust manifold for the isb170? I'd like to try and make my own out of stainless and put it into autocad to make sure that it will fit my application.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
729 Posts
Almost done with my tune. I have a second engine ive been test running it on. I can rev it up to 4k, I am hoping itll put out a solid 300HP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Almost done with my tune. I have a second engine ive been test running it on. I can rev it up to 4k, I am hoping itll put out a solid 300HP.
Are you able to adjust fuel timing and duration? are you able to fuel by boost psi?
thanks steve
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
729 Posts
I can change pretty much everything. However, I want to wait until I get my engine in my truck before I start tuning other people. I don't want to melt down someone elses engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
Almost done with my tune. I have a second engine ive been test running it on. I can rev it up to 4k, I am hoping itll put out a solid 300HP.
Did you have to do anything with the pump?
I just had a guy hook up Insite and high governor is set to 3800 but engine is still limited to 2600RPM. He called a couple of injection pump places and they say its in the CP3 that is limiting the RPM????
 
21 - 40 of 48 Posts
Top