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I have a 4BT that came either out of an 80hp Case Skid Steer or a 5120 Case IH Maxxum. The engine was sourced from Mckinney pre-Ebay days.

Decent core engine to build, turned over.

It is missing the turbo, the injector pump, the pump timing gear, the pump gear access cover.

What I want to do is have it about 60-80 engine HP and I swapping it into a tractor that had an engine that share's the 4BT pattern.

I am wondering if there is a list somewhere of pump part numbers and how much HP they're intended to put out in their application(so I could order a new camshaft to match that application, and find a turbo to match as well).

My overhaul kit is a Cummins 3.9 4BT complete overhaul kit from the military, it's very complete, it even comes with salvage sleeves so in case the block is cracked they could be fitted and finish bore and honed, the bearings are all high end clevite, the rest of the pieces(pistons, rings,) are from Cummins.

Is there anyway I can find out a list of pumps that were for 60-80hp(80hp preferred) and then I can be on the lookout for one ?

Thank you all for your help and thank you for having me.
 

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Welcome to the forum. The engine you have is listed @ 88 hp if it came from a 5120 and that one was turbo charged. Is there any ID plate on the front gear housing? I assume you know the parts you are missing are the most expensive things on the engine. It may or may not have been a turbo engine if it came from a skid steer. Is the exhaust manifold still there? That would tell you if it was a turbo or non turbo. Sounds like you have a bare core engine. Have you got a budget? This won't be cheap. Is you rebuild kit for a standard bore engine or for an overbore? Pistons varied depending on injector type and with or without turbo. You'd need to tear this thing down to determine what all's needed. Are the injectors in place? Their ID number may give some clues. I have a Cummins parts book that shows an 80 HP engine CPL 2361 which is non turbo. If you look at the gear housing where the injection pump mounts, are there 3 or 4 bolt holes? 4 bolt would likely be a Bosch A100 injection pump. Virtually impossible to identify the engine without any of the parts you're missing. There could be a slight chance the engine serial number could be stamped on the back of the block just below the head. Another clue as to whether it had a turbo would be the turbo drain hole on the block skirt. If it's plugged then the engine wasn't turbo. If you could post some photos there might be some clues as to ID.
 

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Goat, that tells you what pumps were used on certain power levels, but what pump did his engine have originally? Also, this listing only show Bosch pumps. Industrials came with Bosch, Stanadyne, Lucas, and probably few more.
 

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That's not what the OP asked. Yes there is a list and I can give him pump numbers for his desired build HP but to identify the original pump we need more information.

I have listings for Lucas, Stanadyne also but to identify the original CPL I need injector, head or camshaft part number.

It's not clear if he wants to return to OE config or just build an 80 HP engine since he virtually has a blank slate.
 

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He really isn't sure what this engine even came from. The Case tractor he mentions was 88 HP which probably wasn't a Bosch pump. The 80 HP I have in my industrial catalog is non turbo and uses a Bosch A pump. That one probably wasn't in your list because it's a 4b instead of a 4bt. That's one reason I mentioned looking a the mounting point for the pump. VE's would be 3 bolts and A's would be 4 bolts. Your info is very good. I don't have access to anything quite that detailed. Depending on what front housing he has, he can make it whatever he wishes. Lots of unknowns on this engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you all for the replies. Greatly appreciated.

This engine is missing the turbo in the sense I took it off. I have it on a shelf, but given as I got this YEARS and YEARS(like when he had 10 engines) ago from Mckinney out of Ohio, I'm going to assume the turbo needs rebuilt before I stick it on there. Honestly, I'd rather have N/A engine, and I've looked at the rebuild kits I've got- and that is possible.

There was a 4B engine that DROTT Cranes(division of CASE Construction) built that was around 65hp, but it could be raised in compression, injectors, and pump pressure order to get 70-77hp. I have one of those, it has a Lucas CAV injector pump on it(I want to say it is Lucas CAV, it may be Standyne, but I'm pretty sure it is Lucas).

I bought a pallet of complete rebuilt kits for 4BT's that GovLiq(god rest it's soul) sold when the site first came up.

I've got at least 6 kits. I've got one that has salvage sleeves if the block's been completely cracked. The other kits range from .010 to .040 overbore, and I have a selection of crank and rod bearings that are .010 to .020 under- as well as standard. I have a new crank that is beautiful, it's still in cosmoline. I have new rods that the depot put ARP upgraded rod bolts in for some reason.

I don't have the pump, or drive gear for the pump. The gear housing is there, front cover is there but it is off right now while I was going to try to see what a performance cam should look like so when I go to order from Bullet Racing Cams in Olive Branch, I'll know what to order.

The bore is good, no taper.

I had heard that early on Mckinney bought a bunch of engines and then sold the pumps to finance the purchase and it came out as a wash. I don't know what the story is.

This engine was a turbo as the exhaust manifold on it feeds up to a turbo. I don't think it was intercooled in any way. When McKinney got this engine, it's probably an 88-92 engine, and McKinney sold it to me when he was just starting and he had some nice stuff. This one had been a in a running tractor that had a wiring fire due to a CASE reman alternator. I've got the info of what it came from written down somewhere but we have many tractors, many pieces of equipment, and I have manuals for all of it.

I realize the expense I'm looking at, but I feel $4500 for a 4BD1- which along the 4FC1 and 4FE1 came in this series of tractors, is a mistake as an investment. The 4BD1's are overpriced in my area, for what I'm doing. I cannot get anything but a bare 4FC1 block from Isuzu- it's $2200 for a bare block. The rest of my 4FC1 industrial engine in my Iseki tractor, is usable, just not the block. My experience trying to braze, or drill and thread plug and then weld, or just plain weld a cracked block is not something I've found to be a reasonable thing to do in the long run. Going to a Cummins, which is a bolt in, eliminates glow plugs, more power(drive train is designed for up to 100hp), better reliability and starting.

I have that 65hp Drott 4B engine that is complete and was depot remann'd and never reinstalled in a crane. I could just turn up the pressure on the CAV pump, look at the injectors that are in it and verify what they are, and maybe do a cam change from Bullet. It's already running, and I could coax another 10hp and some torque pretty easily. It's my favorite 4x4 tractor we own. It has a Carraro industrial 12 speed fwd and reverse(but not shuttle), this platform had an Isuzu 6, an Isuzu C240, a 4BD1 in JDM, and then a Cummins could be ordered.

I've got a ton of 4FB1 engines, but none are 4FB1 industrials, just regular vanilla 4FB1's.

I figure if I am going whole hog and doing an engine swap, put in the Cummins and be done with it.

The info I've gotten so far is excellent. Can't thank you all enough.
 

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I have a 91 case dozer, that I'm trying to get a throttle shaft bushing for. There are no legible numbers on the rectangular pad, where bosch usually stamps the id info. I've checked both sides of the pump.

The tag on the engine says:
4t-390 Part no:A174324
Serial: 44494903

any chance someone here can help?
 

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Thanks for the idea, just tried it, and all I get is "Please enter a valid ESN" maybe because the tag says case on it, not cummins?
 

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Krom, a 4t-390 is a Cummins 4bt 3.9. Case and Cummins worked together in the development of the the B series engines. It's possible your ESN may not show in Quick Serve and you'd need to contact a Cummins store like Cummins Atlantic. For some reason some serial numbers won't show in the regular Quick Serve. By the way, if the part you're looking for is part of the injection pump, that will not show on Quick Serve. It would be a Bosch part. Is your pump a rotary or in line? Bosch rotary would be a VE model and the in line most likely is an A. Don't know that any dozers would have had the P3000 pump.
 

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The pump is a bosch VE, and its leaking around the throttle shaft.
I ordered a bushing and seal kit for a 5.9 in a dodge truck. With no visable numbers on the pump, and no pump shop withing an hour in any direction, I'm kinda stuck. No one online or the phone wants to sell me parts without a number (can't really blame them) The bushing was $10 I'll measure it up and if its the same, it'll get used, if not the existing one will work.
 

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You have an ESN from the engine ID plate. Is there a CPL # there? If so, from that you should be able to cross reference a pump Cummins part #. What is the model # of your dozer? Might also be able to find the info from that.
 

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Update: There is no CPL # on the tag.
The seal kit, and throttle shaft bushing I ordered for a 5.9 work perfect.
 

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Pumps for a 4B configuration.

Is there any chance you have pages like those for a 4bt, with ve pump?

Looking for the bosch number for a ve pump on a 4bt in a dozer, that would make around 100 hp..

I believe the pump I have is 85-88 something hp (I still haven't found any numbers on the pump... but parts books and the internet lead me to believe the pump is pn 0 460 424 071)
 
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