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Hello all, this is my first post on this site. Alot of great information here, and appreciate this site for all the info I needed in the past when I was lurking.

I am doing a really swap into a custom Nissan frame, and the rig has a body of a newer ranger. I am sure you guys are aware of the Common Rail ISB engines has its computer and fuel filter on the left side of the engine. This was a huge issue for me for clearing the steering. I successfully relocated the engine computer inside the cab of the truck, I found out the inlet and out let fuel lines were not needed to the computer. That made some space for me, now I am left with the fuel filter area and the dreadful amount of hoses going in and out around it.

My plans to relocate the filter in the rear closest to the tank with the filter/separator with a cheap low pressure pump in between. I made a diagram where I could do this successfully with just having one send line, and one return line from the CP3 pump.

My question is when I look online for a CP3 pump, going through the pictures. I noticed the pump I have have extra lines going in and out of the filter and back to pump. I really dont get it how it works, but it really looks to me to be a some sort of line divider, or cooling? Can you guys help me out on telling me what is this part from the pump and what its purpose? I included some photos of the pump, and one to compare to the ones i see online.
 

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I also want to mention another thing, I could have alot more lines going back and fourth from the new relocated spot but I wanted to avoid this. I am not sure these could be capped off, or just run a line in and out.
 

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Might want to rethink your ECM cooler plate

That ECM can get VERY Hot. The purpose of the fuel running through the ECM is two fold, it does in fact cool down the ECM plate, but it also warms the fuel in a colder climate that allows the CP3 to pump more easily. The system also has a fuel heater and temperature sensor. The fuel heater is just a bimetallic strip and is self activating, on the CM800 hardware it doesn't communicate with the ECM at all, but just does its own thing. The fuel temp sensor, however, does communicate with the ECM and it WILL cause de-rate and even limp mode. I would rethink the ECM fuel cooling scenario. Its not going to be fun routing your main feed into the chassis and then back out again but you may need to do so; OR... you can cool the ECM using a remote cooling system such as a glycol pump or something that is used for cooling these overclocked PCs and stuff that people are building. Even a small 12v pump and a transmission cooler; either way, that Bosch board is WAY too hard to come by to risk overheating it and or who knows if it will get hot enough to melt things inside the chassis.

As for the fuel routing with a deleted filter head; thats how my system is setup and I can identify the port routing for you. You will need a wye or T type connection on the downstream side of the CP3 return to drain the rail pressure valve (on top of the intake) and the injector return valve (back of cylinder head). They injector return puts out quite the surprising amount of fuel when you let off of the throttle and it will back feed upwards to the rail pressure valve. I converted my FRPV from the one time use Industrial valve over to the same one that fits on the '04 to '06 Cummins Dodge Pickups. It uses a banjo bolt or ORB type fitting.

As for your fuel system routing, you will need to incorporate a port for your fuel rail sensor to thread into. I believe it is just NPT threads, so an NPT or JIC/NPT type T fitting can be used. Make sure the fitting is mounted so that it WON'T trap an air bubble in the T- block and starve the fitting for fuel. As mentioned above, this is important because a bad fuel temp reading will cause the engine to de-rate and cost you power.

For your remote filters, I'd suggest buying something like an FASS or Airdog pump that has filtration, lift pressure, and water separation built into the unit. I'm running the 95G universal pump on mine and had to install an anti-back flow valve just outside of the pump because the head pressure of my fuel system was back draining to the tank. Later today I'll draw a diagram of the fuel routing scenario that I am running on my truck, and it works pretty well.

I am just using push lock hose and aeroquip fittings installed on ORB port to JIC adapters. The CP3 pump and ECM plate are different size metric oRing port fittings I believe.

More to come later. I'm about to go work on mine some more today.

Starting on page 3 of this thread, is some ISB stuff, and then it jumps all over the place. Be worth a skim I think.

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/tow-rigs-trailers/1067162-dodge-wc53-tow-rig-vintage-airstream-3.html
 

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AlxJ64 thats a whole lot of good information you mentioned here! Thanks for that. I am in the progress rearranging my wiring to relocate the ECM, so it does not have its spot just yet, the idea was in the cab. I bought this motor and trans as compete running from a guy named Chad Mckinney on ebay a year ago, He was really helpful trying to get me to figure out how to start this thing from fuel system wise, and electrical wise. Broke few things during the swap, and the move from states. Anyways, he is the one that told me he had guys relocate the computer, it doesnt need that line to computer really because ISB or Cummins sell their powerplants to companies as a bundled up package. So they added that line to the computer because the engine gets hot, with the computer. I did not understood this completely, but I will have to rethink about this ECM thing again.


That Willie project that guy is building is incredible, I was following it for some time. Only thing I did not find much info on ECM (unless I missed that). I am using the wire conductor idea he had. It seems hes using some kind of alternative setup to run his truck.

I never heard of ORB fittings, but this will be good info for later. During the swap, bumped into something and broke all the plastic lines that was going all over the place on this engine. Spent alot of time to figure this one out. Only thing that I just dont really understand the two fuel ports on the CP3. I used 6an 90 degree 6an fittings with the m12x1.5 ends going to the ports and all an braided lines. Im going to upload a photo of the fuel system how I routed it without the computer. I will upload my diagram of the updated fuel lines and filter later on today. I wish I could get a FASS or Airdog system, just dont have the cash. It ran the way how I had it set up, I just hoping to relocate things and would be the same .

Oh yeah, there seem to be two connectors on that block fuel filter, one was just cut off, the lower one. Im guessing its that fuel heater? The top probably is the temp sensor, which goes to the ECM. There was never any harness goes to the ECM for that one lower part of the filter.

Thanks again for the reply, had me to rethink for a bit.
 

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ORB= o-ring boss , uses an oring at the shoulder to seal instead of the an flare.

The person you got the engine from has a less than stellar reputation.
However, I would think the cab would be cooler that the engine compartment even with the fuel cooling the computer.
 

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That Willie project that guy is building is incredible, I was following it for some time. Only thing I did not find much info on ECM (unless I missed that). I am using the wire conductor idea he had. It seems hes using some kind of alternative setup to run his truck.

I never heard of ORB fittings, but this will be good info for later. During the swap, bumped into something and broke all the plastic lines that was going all over the place on this engine. Spent alot of time to figure this one out. Only thing that I just dont really understand the two fuel ports on the CP3. I used 6an 90 degree 6an fittings with the m12x1.5 ends going to the ports and all an braided lines. Im going to upload a photo of the fuel system how I routed it without the computer. I will upload my diagram of the updated fuel lines and filter later on today. I wish I could get a FASS or Airdog system, just dont have the cash. It ran the way how I had it set up, I just hoping to relocate things and would be the same .

Oh yeah, there seem to be two connectors on that block fuel filter, one was just cut off, the lower one. Im guessing its that fuel heater? The top probably is the temp sensor, which goes to the ECM. There was never any harness goes to the ECM for that one lower part of the filter.

Thanks again for the reply, had me to rethink for a bit.
Sounds like you already have the ORB fittings, they are just the type of metric fitting to AN adapters that you used. Same thing that I used for my setup. So, in the system to bypass the filter head... See the photos...

I also attached a photo of the Fuel temp sensor adapter that I used. The fitting was an NPT outside bung to an M14x1.5 internal ORB so that the sensor could be threaded into my little T fitting off of the bottom of the ECM.

Went from fuel source (in my case bottom of ECM) to TOP of low pressure pump, then from bottom of low pressure pump to the bottom straight in port on the high Pressure rear pump. Then the outlet is the fitting with no hose on it. I also have a -T- fitting downstream of that to take the cylinder head and rail overflow circuits.

Thanks for the compliments; The "Willys" is actually a Dodge and its my build. The electrical Canbus system is isolated from the engine aside from a few security features and has nothing to do with the ECM. The Allison is hooked to the ECM through a few J1939 CAN wires. These engines require 3 to 5 micron filtration and any water in the fuel is an absolute no-no; so whatever affordable way you can assure that, make sure you protect your investment.

Did Chad give you any mileage information on the Engine? The ECM actually keeps track of that stuff. I have a cheaper Amazon scanner that will connect to the J1939 setup and give you the information you need but you will need to have the 9 pin connector wired up for reading it; these engines will not communicate on OBDII.
 

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Sounds like you already have the ORB fittings, they are just the type of metric fitting to AN adapters that you used. Same thing that I used for my setup. So, in the system to bypass the filter head... See the photos...

I also attached a photo of the Fuel temp sensor adapter that I used. The fitting was an NPT outside bung to an M14x1.5 internal ORB so that the sensor could be threaded into my little T fitting off of the bottom of the ECM.

Went from fuel source (in my case bottom of ECM) to TOP of low pressure pump, then from bottom of low pressure pump to the bottom straight in port on the high Pressure rear pump. Then the outlet is the fitting with no hose on it. I also have a -T- fitting downstream of that to take the cylinder head and rail overflow circuits.

Thanks for the compliments; The "Willys" is actually a Dodge and its my build. The electrical Canbus system is isolated from the engine aside from a few security features and has nothing to do with the ECM. The Allison is hooked to the ECM through a few J1939 CAN wires. These engines require 3 to 5 micron filtration and any water in the fuel is an absolute no-no; so whatever affordable way you can assure that, make sure you protect your investment.

Did Chad give you any mileage information on the Engine? The ECM actually keeps track of that stuff. I have a cheaper Amazon scanner that will connect to the J1939 setup and give you the information you need but you will need to have the 9 pin connector wired up for reading it; these engines will not communicate on OBDII.
:eek: I just saw your user name, and it was the same on the pirate4x4! I feel like I'm talking to the celebrity, and I'm honored to be talking to you! No really, off and on I watch your build since years ago, and just saw it again you made so much progress glad to see how complete it is. That motivates me to resume on my build. All those years I been wanting a cummins, got my hands on one finally with a manual tranny, but all electronics. My build isnt as great as yours, your skills are off the charts, hopefully I can get better at this. Since you are talking to me, I uploaded two pictures of my rig I'm building. I'll most more on another post when I feel confident with this build again.

Where could I find such thing? What the scanner called and would you let me borrow it lol. I was actually trying to find wiring harness for this ECM, I had terrible luck, Chad was the one to give me a diagram for all the pin outs to make this motor run. There was no source information about the reader port. Do you have a wiring diagram by any chance? What kind of port does it use? I have the 89 Pin ECU. Chad couldnt give me the information on mileage or what truck it was in because he had so many in and out, even saw the warehouse, nothing but these motors everywhere. I would definitely want to know what the mileage this thing has. Is this all the ECU can do? Sorry for asking so much, information about these things are impossible to find.

I will try to experiment the ECU, if it gets hot, run it for a bit, and have a heat reader wrapped around it. If it does indeed gets hot (I am guessing it shouldnt be hotter than a laptop on on heavy usage), Ill try cooling fans, I have another idea but I think it either stupid or actually worth a try, let me know about this; run the cooling system from the radiator to it, almost like a heater core, but again, I dont know whats hot is too hot for this ECU

Also still on this topic, is it possible for for a sensor read out to a electronic gauge and to the ECU at the same time, or its better to use one sensor for one thing? I want to monitor my low fuel pressure on a gauge since I am using a cheap low pressure O'Reilly edelbrock pump, the gas one surprisingly gas one works better than the green one.

I like your sensor idea, I will also upload a picture of my diagram (I just found it). It actually almost have the same concept like yours, but I thinking about putting mine on the outside port of the cp3, the top one. I still have no idea what that external cp3 ports are for so this was another reason why I am trying to find this out, because I am not sure thats a low pressure pump, or some sort of cooling adapter, or just an fuel line divider.

As you could see in my diagram, im going to run a t on the rail and another t on the cp3 all the way to the tank. My fuel tank is actually a bottom deck 30 gallon aluminum boat tank, and I plan to add two 6an bungs for my return and feed to the bottom of it. I hear the suction from feed straw from top of the tank can cause feed issue to low pressure fuel pump and cause them to die.

I wanted to use the filter that was on this engine, because you are right, water bad big time, so is air. I was thinking from tank to water fuel separator, to low pressure fuel pump to fuel filter and then all the way to the cp3 top outside port with a sensor, then comes out of the bottom outside port to the lowest port of the cp3 pump. You get to see my diagram, hopefully it make sense, and what do you think?
 

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AlxJ64, I also Have to give you credit for the conductor connector style firewall plug in. Best idea I ever saw to have wires in the chassis to engine bay! My 50 Pin was time consuming, but should be worth it. I am using this one for low amp amp stuff, I am sure the ECU stuff is perfect for this. Got a question for you, my dumb ass cut the timing wires thinking it has just a hard isolation for two wires, but ended up finding out they were some sort of shielded wire. what I did was soder the two little wires, and twist the copper braid tin it and add a wire, making sure no wires connect, heat shrink each wire, and heat shrink the overall cable and finely twist it to the connector. You get to see the two wires are going from the ecu those are the timing wires in the picture I'm uploading. I never worked with these wires, and I think I read something about that on your build page, but wanted to confirm. I think they should be ok as long they're not next to any high amperage pins.
 

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Ha ha, I am just a regular guy who just really likes his old truck project. I have a desire to understand as much as I can about things which is why I find myself here; I also enjoy helping those that help themselves. Your truck looks pretty cool actually. Its going to be a stout machine when you get it all together. Where do you live now?

Those signal wires that are braided, must remain braided for as long as possible, and be given a shield (as you read in my other build thread). Going through the bulkhead is fine, but you will need to keep them twisted all the way to the ECM. See below in regards to the comm wires. That 50 pin looks like a LOT of work. Good job on that for sure!

The scanner tool that will read all of the things the ECM is reading or most of what it has stored, it will not give you trouble codes but it will give you engine hours, miles, etc. It will tell you (slow to update) engine temp, certain switch positions, etc etc. I'll attach a screen shot of some stuff that it showed for mine when I was messing with it. Again, sadly no diagnostic codes.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0739WS69C/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It uses the J1939 Industrial Protocol for communication, you will want this port wired if you ever decide to have someone with Cummins iNsite troubleshoot your ECM.
This is the connector...
https://www.waytekwire.com/item/38673/Amphenol-AHD10-9-1939P-AHD-9-Pin-J1939-Receptacle/

And this is the wiring scheme from the CAN J1939 wires from your ECM, that must be a twisted pair that are shielded with some sort of interference rated tape. You will need constant 12V power, the CAN signal wires, and a good ground.

I attached the wiring diagram for your ECM (far right of pic) to the 9 pin connector. It uses DTP DT connector pins. You can get them from Waytek or from amazon even.

One key to the wiring features on the CM800 ECMs is that for the most part Pin 08 is your master power source. It is basically a hot wire (so protect it with a fuse) that will control a lot of other circuits. In order to get information from the ECM you need to switch on the diagnostic switch, which will connect power from Pin 08 to Pin 79. This will enable reading of status from the ECM and also if you ever have it hooked up by Cummins, they need this on so that they can read codes.

There are several other features that run off of this Pin 08 power source; including but not limited to your Brake Pedal information to ECM for the sake of cruise control and high idle controls (warm up cycles), your wait to start lamp, service warning lamps, etc etc.

The service brake switch is to be wired kind of like many import vehicles. That is with a switch on the pedal that when the pedal is depressed, it will close the switch; this is because the default position of the ECM is that the brakes are OFF it is getting no signal across the switch. When it gets closed contact between Pin 08 and Pin 80 it tells the ECM the brakes are applied. This will effect the idle level of the engine, and if you have cruise control, PTO, etc enabled, then it will switch those features off.

One last thing to be aware of, depending on the application of your engine, and the original transmission behind it, you may run into the issue that the ECM is looking for a speed sensor signal from the automatic transmission. There is a control inside the ECM that the Cummins iNSite program can enable to tell the engine if it has an automatic or manual transmission behind it. I don't know if Chad turned that off for you or not; he offered me his license of Insite a while back to debugg some things with my engine but I have a local friend with the newsest version of the software. If this automatic switch is not turned off, the engine can have some issues. Also, depending the application, the ECM can have the engine limited to its maximum torque output, and maximum RPM. There are mixed results of trying to change these parameters. Some say that Cummins can;t do it, however when we sat down with my ECM, we were able to access and change all of the engine parameters. Turned off torque management, upped the rev limiter, etc. We even adjusted the tire size and final gear ratio for the 40 tooth VSS so that the ECM is still counting the correct MPH so it can also count the correct total miles it is recording, and adjust its idle speeds and stuff when coming to a stop.

I can provide more information as you request it but I am not always quick to respond. I'm finding out there is a lot unknown about these little engines and Cummins isn't always great to work with regarding them. Steed is on a level above the rest of us swap guys too; he's building some wicked stuff but we are just trying to get ours to run!
 

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Thanks again for tons of great information! I will have a look back at these things once I am finished with the relocation of the ECU, and fuel system. Just a step at a time for me because I usually get carried away too fast. Changing the tires sizes, and reading the other stuff sound very handy! How I look this guy up with his builds? I am prepared to have my eyes popping out of amazement! I am in Vacaville, California.

Newbie to shielded wire here. Just want to to clarify, its those copper braided two wire three plugs goes to the timing or crankshaft sensor. pictures below. I cut one too sort and one too long on the engine bay, I swap them around, and perfect they will fit into my connector port without extending the wires on the engine bay area. But still, might be pushing it for the other end, I have a foot long of evenly twisted three wires from the cut from the ecu wire to the connector, its convenient for the install when its a foot extension, but again I'm probably pushing it. How much is too far from the connector from the braided shield? There is about a foot of the original braided wires from the ecu.
 

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Thanks again for tons of great information! I will have a look back at these things once I am finished with the relocation of the ECU, and fuel system. Just a step at a time for me because I usually get carried away too fast. Changing the tires sizes, and reading the other stuff sound very handy! How I look this guy up with his builds? I am prepared to have my eyes popping out of amazement! I am in Vacaville, California.

Newbie to shielded wire here. Just want to to clarify, its those copper braided two wire three plugs goes to the timing or crankshaft sensor. pictures below. I cut one too sort and one too long on the engine bay, I swap them around, and perfect they will fit into my connector port without extending the wires on the engine bay area. But still, might be pushing it for the other end, I have a foot long of evenly twisted three wires from the cut from the ecu wire to the connector, its convenient for the install when its a foot extension, but again I'm probably pushing it. How much is too far from the connector from the braided shield? There is about a foot of the original braided wires from the ecu.
You can buy braided shielded wire from the online stores like Delcity, Waytek and even Mcmaster. Just search for shielded CAN wire. You want them twisted as far as possible when other wires are around because the twisting action helps cancel out the Magnetic fields they can create and receive which can cause noise in the signal and cause anything on CAN pulse to not function correctly. The problems with correctly shielding CAN wires is one of the main reasons I didn't cut into any of my braided wires and just left them full length when adapting my ECM harness to my Chassis harness.
 

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Might want to rethink your ECM cooler plate

That ECM can get VERY Hot. The purpose of the fuel running through the ECM is two fold, it does in fact cool down the ECM plate, but it also warms the fuel in a colder climate that allows the CP3 to pump more easily. The system also has a fuel heater and temperature sensor. The fuel heater is just a bimetallic strip and is self activating, on the CM800 hardware it doesn't communicate with the ECM at all, but just does its own thing. The fuel temp sensor, however, does communicate with the ECM and it WILL cause de-rate and even limp mode. I would rethink the ECM fuel cooling scenario. Its not going to be fun routing your main feed into the chassis and then back out again but you may need to do so; OR... you can cool the ECM using a remote cooling system such as a glycol pump or something that is used for cooling these overclocked PCs and stuff that people are building. Even a small 12v pump and a transmission cooler; either way, that Bosch board is WAY too hard to come by to risk overheating it and or who knows if it will get hot enough to melt things inside the chassis.

As for the fuel routing with a deleted filter head; thats how my system is setup and I can identify the port routing for you. You will need a wye or T type connection on the downstream side of the CP3 return to drain the rail pressure valve (on top of the intake) and the injector return valve (back of cylinder head). They injector return puts out quite the surprising amount of fuel when you let off of the throttle and it will back feed upwards to the rail pressure valve. I converted my FRPV from the one time use Industrial valve over to the same one that fits on the '04 to '06 Cummins Dodge Pickups. It uses a banjo bolt or ORB type fitting.

As for your fuel system routing, you will need to incorporate a port for your fuel rail sensor to thread into. I believe it is just NPT threads, so an NPT or JIC/NPT type T fitting can be used. Make sure the fitting is mounted so that it WON'T trap an air bubble in the T- block and starve the fitting for fuel. As mentioned above, this is important because a bad fuel temp reading will cause the engine to de-rate and cost you power.

For your remote filters, I'd suggest buying something like an FASS or Airdog pump that has filtration, lift pressure, and water separation built into the unit. I'm running the 95G universal pump on mine and had to install an anti-back flow valve just outside of the pump because the head pressure of my fuel system was back draining to the tank. Later today I'll draw a diagram of the fuel routing scenario that I am running on my truck, and it works pretty well.

I am just using push lock hose and aeroquip fittings installed on ORB port to JIC adapters. The CP3 pump and ECM plate are different size metric oRing port fittings I believe.

More to come later. I'm about to go work on mine some more today.

Starting on page 3 of this thread, is some ISB stuff, and then it jumps all over the place. Be worth a skim I think.

Dodge WC53 Tow Rig and Restomod
If the ecm does go into limp mode and de-rate do you have to have the ecm cleared or reset at a Cummins dealer or will just turning it off and back on reset it ?
 
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