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Discussion Starter #481
i would put some sort of crossmember in there as you say rover did for a reason keep up the great work
Just have to cobble together some way to do so without the front driveshaft trying to cut it in half, & will do!
 

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The upper coolant connection was straight forward thanks to the modifications to the radiator's inlet port, just a simple 45-degree 1.75" layered silicone hose with stainless t-bolt clamps that I'm using throughout:


The engine's new coolant inlet connection uses a short 2" diameter hose, then the new elbow, & down to the radiator with a 90-degree elbow hose:
Initially I liked you idea for using silicone for coolant hoses. I though it would be a good method for making a custom lower radiator hose for my Jeep QSB3.3 project. I decided to do some research. After extensive searching and reading, I found this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46nEuERiFu4

It appears the permeation rate of water through silicone is 10x greater than it is for EDPM. I will attempt to contact some coolant hose companies (Gates, Dayco, Continental) to learn if they sell universal EDPM ELLs.
 

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A better option is to install Gates Green Stripe Vulco-Flex hoses.

They're smooth on the inside, the outer convolutions are helical wire coils for structural integrity.

The outermost soft wrap molds the hoses into shape after a few heat cycles, with no loss of flow upto a 90 degree bend.

I've included factory hoses for a side by side comparison of the shape the Vulco-Flex hoses can be bent into - easy to do on the vehicle.

fullsizeoutput_e90.jpg

t4r1i97NRDC%U4mc2m+Few.jpg

ZjgW7QnKSimevOguOo95IQ.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #485
Initially I liked you idea for using silicone for coolant hoses. I though it would be a good method for making a custom lower radiator hose for my Jeep QSB3.3 project. I decided to do some research. After extensive searching and reading, I found this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46nEuERiFu4

It appears the permeation rate of water through silicone is 10x greater than it is for EDPM. I will attempt to contact some coolant hose companies (Gates, Dayco, Continental) to learn if they sell universal EDPM ELLs.
Woah! Well crap. I thought it was just ever so slightly more permeable, not comically more permeable! Hmm... that'll need a rethink for the long term for sure.
 

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Woah! Well crap. I thought it was just ever so slightly more permeable, not comically more permeable! Hmm... that'll need a rethink for the long term for sure.
i`ve been using silicone heater hose and silicone radiator hose for over 20 years and NEVER had ANY moisture on any of them. I have been getting them from siliconeintakes and they say their stuff is antifreeze rated. My local hose man sells silicone heater hose and radiator size silicone straight and Ells. the best thing I like about the silicone hoses is that they do not get hard and crack after a couple years. I`ve had some hoses on my vehicles for 15 years and they are still soft, supple, and DO NOT LEAK or weep. just my 2 cents worth.
 

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On my DD engine, I used Cu pipe elbows and straight sections of rubber hose, easy to get straight sections.

Ed
 

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I've been using silicone joiners on my cooling system for a few years. There is a tiny bit of seepage visible, but not enough to cause a drip.

Few years in, no issues with them other than that.
 

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Discussion Starter #489
Hmmm... maybe some marketing people came up with that 10X perfusion factor then. I haven't really noticed much for any signs of bleed-thru with silicone hoses on my projects in the past, maybe due to them being replaced more often since they were that cheap Chinesium garbage (compared to these well made Vibrant hoses). Weirdly I've seen more signs of bleed-thru with rubber hoses, maybe it's something to do with the different surface finishes showing the coolant "sweat" in different ways...? My rallycar project has all OEM rubber & lost a surprising amount while in storage for a few years, so much so that the hoses were more white than black when I brushed the cobwebs off. I know my own experiences are only anecdotal & visual, versus proper measured & controlled testing, but I'll keep an eye on these Vibrant silicone hoses & report back anything out of the ordinary.
 

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I understand lots of folks successfully use silicone hoses for coolant. Gates is a reputable company and sells silicone hoses for CAC applications. I trust their testing. I have been using their products for many, many years (I'm 58). I spoke to Gates technical support last week. The technician emailed a spreadsheet (he called it a cheat sheet) to me for 90 degree Gates EDPM coolant hoses. Most of the hoses are already used in automotive applications and may have to be cut to fit for our purposes, but they are readily available from auto parts stores in the event of failure.
 

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Discussion Starter #491
I understand lots of folks successfully use silicone hoses for coolant. Gates is a reputable company and sells silicone hoses for CAC applications. I trust their testing. I have been using their products for many, many years (I'm 58). I spoke to Gates technical support last week. The technician emailed a spreadsheet (he called it a cheat sheet) to me for 90 degree Gates EDPM coolant hoses. Most of the hoses are already used in automotive applications and may have to be cut to fit for our purposes, but they are readily available from auto parts stores in the event of failure.
Oh don't get me wrong... I appreciate their parts as well, especially for many import brands where they've taken over for the OEM replacement parts. No joke I just ran into an example of their parts being better this last Saturday: In this case it was a chinesium timing belt that refused to line up properly (that apparently cost this friend well over an hour of fighting it) on a Subaru, but then the Gates belt came to the rescue & lined right up in 5 minutes. I have no issues with the actual hard parts, just wary about marketing suits that have a habit of fouling up perfectly good products (from any brand!), but then I'm sure I'm not telling you anything new there haha! I'll have to get a hold of them for that cheat sheet, sounds useful.
 

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Discussion Starter #493 (Edited)
Slacking on updates! I am happy I managed to get all 5 of my projects running this year, but at the same time I'm probably even more scattered then usual. But anyway, updates:

Ran into an interference with the Land Cruiser steering gear's pitman arm running into part of the original Rover panhard bar frame bracket. I already have the most ideal pitman arm for that sort of issue, but at full passenger-side lock it would have to cut nearly halfway thru that bracket to clear. Shouldn't be a huge deal to slice off the old panhard bracket & fabricate something:


Here's an initial sketch for an idea I had using tube that'll allow full swing of the pitman as well as retaining the original panhard location. May end up using 4 tube legs, or even plate like original, can't say for sure until I build a fixture to hold the panhard location steady for the initial fabrication work:


And another sketch, this time of the throttle cable routing ideas. A friend was checking out the build & suggested that rather than building a custom bellcrank throttle linkage with springs & all that... instead maybe I could wrap the original Rover cable over the injection pump so it'll simply & directly pull the throttle lever forward. Great to have extra eyes on a project!


This laser etched gem came from a guy who's working on his own Land Rover Discovery Cummins swap project that sounds like it'll be a real tank when it's done! He came up with what was in my opinion by far the best name for a swap in one of these things, Land Rummins. It looks so much like the original emblem! Will make for an awesome sneaky replacement of what's been attached to the Rover's since the original Series trucks in 1948:
 

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Glad you liked the Rummins badge. I made the bronze ones as well, but my bandsaw blade took a dump and wouldn't cut thre bronze. As soon as i get that one finished, I'll shoot it your way. This whole Land Rummins project reminds me of the scene from Jurassic Park where Dr. Malcolm is chiding Mr. Hammond saying, "your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should". Haha, weeeelllll, i feel like Hammond with his park off the coast of Costa Rica. I'm $24k into this build, so I'm perty sure I'm past the point of no return..."Spare no expense".
Anywho, it's been awesome to follow your build, taking tips and tech-cedures (techniques and procedures) since were kinda breaking new ground here in CONUS on the Land Rummins concept. I hear that it's a common thing in the U.K.
I'll be fitting the NV4500 to the 4bt this week and hopefully sliding her in for engine mount dimensions.
 

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Discussion Starter #495
Glad you liked the Rummins badge. I made the bronze ones as well, but my bandsaw blade took a dump and wouldn't cut thre bronze. As soon as i get that one finished, I'll shoot it your way. This whole Land Rummins project reminds me of the scene from Jurassic Park where Dr. Malcolm is chiding Mr. Hammond saying, "your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should". Haha, weeeelllll, i feel like Hammond with his park off the coast of Costa Rica. I'm $24k into this build, so I'm perty sure I'm past the point of no return..."Spare no expense".
Anywho, it's been awesome to follow your build, taking tips and tech-cedures (techniques and procedures) since were kinda breaking new ground here in CONUS on the Land Rummins concept. I hear that it's a common thing in the U.K.
I'll be fitting the NV4500 to the 4bt this week and hopefully sliding her in for engine mount dimensions.
I think "liked" isn't a strong enough word... I've been showing it to friends like it was a picture of a 12-point I bagged or something haha!

Just had a funny conversation about that same quote this last weekend with some friends while we were heading up to a rally race that's packed with engine & drivetrain swapped race cars.

I think I'm just about to tip over $9k with this swap now, & roughly $18k on the whole project now... still beats anything off the lot for half the price!

Might have a hookup here soon on a way to laser out parts for cost, so that I can make a batch of clones of my mounts, if it becomes a reality anytime soon I'll let ya know.
 

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Discussion Starter #496
Back from watching 60+ cars tearing thru the woods at the rally race in the Upper Peninsula & ready to get hands back on the Rover project!


I decided to go forward with redesigning my original Rover panhard bar mount to make way for the full swing of the pitman arm on my brand-new-used "outside the frame rail" Land Cruiser steering gear:


So after a series of measurements locating the original bolt location for the new mount I could start with the cutting. The new bracket that'll replace it will have an inch or two more concave shape in the middle area where my thumb is, to clear that huge forged pitman arm on the Cruiser's gear:


By some luck (with maybe a millimeter of filing the edge of 1 hole) I ended up being able to utilize the original upper 2 mounting holes for the new gear! And I scored a deal on a whole pile of DOM tubing ranging from 1/2" all the way up to 2" that I'll be picking from to slide within the 2 lower holes I'm drilling out, just like the original holes, to keep the large mounting bolts from distorting the frame's box section when they squeeze down:
 

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Awesome man. The LC steering box is beefcake, you won't regret it.
 

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Discussion Starter #498
Awesome man. The LC steering box is beefcake, you won't regret it.
That's good to hear, because even though I'd heard they were tough, at first I was a little surprised by how much smaller the LC box appeared to be. (Could just be the difference in outside/inside frame rail designs) When I take it off again for paint I'll have to set it side by side my old OE Rover unit, just for a funny comparison. I'm happy to see how much aftermarket & DIY mods & just general free information there is out there for them too!

I'm setting the frame rail up proper for the 2 new steering box holes. Not just drilling a pair of holes thru & letting the frame deform under the clamping force of those big 1/2" bolts. I prepared sections of DOM tubing to slide into the frame for bracing, much like the other 2 holes are from the factory:


With the tubing recessed a bit I was able to lay a full penetrating bead down the full perimeter of the tubes & grind them as flat as the rest of the plate on the frame:


Finally, it's fully mounted! Now to mate up the original Rover steering shaft with the Land Cruiser box's input u-joint:
 

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Discussion Starter #500
Next on the list of steering mods is building the new drag-link, and might as well use something as stout as I did in the previous version: 1.5" DOM (seamless) tubing with a 1/4" wall thickness:


In order to calculate it's new length, since the Land Cruiser steering box is in a new place, first I had to drill out the taper in the pitman arm. The FJ80 pitman is a strong forged steel, so drilling it out to fit my 3/4" grade-9 hardware was a bit of a chore. But once I made room for the upgraded bolts I could stick in the spherical joints + tube adapters & center the axle + pitman arm for mocking up the new length tubing:


Thankfully I have a friend patient enough to show me the way of TIG welding, so we were able to get the new drag link hot glue'd together, with a few passes to preserve the tube adapter's fine threads from overheating/warping. It's probably obvious that most of my practice was on the bracket on the left, which is for my Crx rally car project. I made a few clean TIG welds, but similar to when I learned MIG they were not so smooth & slow going... but a little more than 15 minutes practice should help me towards getting my welds more like my friend's really nicely sunken smooth welds. I need to start looking for used TIG machines to start on, because I am hooked!


With the drag link sorted I could move on to linking the old Rover steering stem to the new Land Cruiser gear. I think I spent nearly an hour cursing at the Toyota u-joint that refused to let go, and then I started measuring the 2 lower steering u-joints next to each other for pondering a solution. Originally I thought I'd have to cut the 2 apart & weld some things, but after rolling them both around in my hands I started to notice something funny about their internal splines... they looked similar! I very much did not expect to put calipers in there & see the same dimensions! I think I quadruple checked the spline count + depth + diameter before I decided to try & fit the Rover u-joint to the FJ80 gear box. (Does anyone know if steering gear splines are maybe standardized?) Even the locking bolt lined up to the groove in the splines:


Modifying the steering stem should be considerably easier if all I needed to do was change the length, so I measured the difference, which worked out right at 1 inch shorter. I cut from the middle so that I can retain all the safety features of the Rover's stem (collapsing, break away, anti-vibe)


After welding it was important to grind it all back in order for it to work like original. Turned out pretty good, hard to tell where the weld even is in the stem. So now it's time for all these parts to receive paint! Just as soon as I heal from an injury that's been bogging me way down lately.
 
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