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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Interesting!
hmm, I dont see that injector number anywhere in any of my manuals. I found the other page where mine does switch it to 7mm J919331. I searched that number and it seems to cross over to the 919331 number as well. like these.
thats basically what i bought for mine, but I think i got some off some other knock off site other than ebay. you think something like that would fine? or is that price too cheap to possibly work? lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
The thermostat page is missing out of my manual, ugh!! trying to find a listing for a new thermostat. do you happen to know what part number that might be? or a listing for the right one?

Also a new rod. I just need one. Pure diesel had one for a little over $100. price was ok. but Im getting most of my parts elsewhere now. I can still order that from them, but wasnt sure if you knew another good place to find a new/reman rod
 

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The Cummins 3802338/3802338RX replaces a lot of different Case numbers and Cummins numbers. Basically, that is Cummins go to number for most all the old 9mm injectors and some 7mm units. Here's 28 part numbers that can be shortened to 2.
Case Number Cummins Number
------------ 3802198
------------ 3802336
------------ 3802338
------------ 3802338RX
J914472 3914472
JR914472 3914472RX
AR77553
J903383 3903383
J909475 3909475
J909476 3909476
J913992 3913992
J917661 3917661
J915568 3915568
J919319 3919319
J919331 3919331
JR919331 3919331RX
------------ 6760525
 

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On the rod it is interesting that the part numbers for that have all been discontinued. 3901569 was the oldest number which was replaced by 3925232 which was replaced by 3942581. I guess Cummins figured no one would ever need rods again. LOL. AG Kits has them under part number K3901566 for $69.68. 3901566 was the casting number for 3901569.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Awesome. thanks for the help! love that you found it on AG site for me, haha! I talked to my local diesel shop. they said they will rebuild my injectors for around $80, with 9mm tips. I am tempted to go that route. although the new ones I got might be just fine, would rather be safe than racking my brain again when it doesnt start! lol. then Id have an extra set, anyways.

They also gave me a good price on a rebuild kit. and good prices on a few other parts ive been looking for. I may get all my stuff through them, havent decided yet. I like the idea of getting parts locally (when the price is right, enough) that way when there are problems its easy to deal with and get it straightened out at least. waiting to hear back from them on some other things yet.
 

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The $80 rebuild cost is reasonable but you'd probably want to wait and see what condition the head is in before you went that route. You'll want to do the killer dowel pin repair while your doing everything if that hasn't been done already. On the rod, you can find good used rods on ebay in the $40 range. Some from USA, some from England. The 6bt rod is exactly the same as yours up to 1998 when they changed to a cracked rod. Since you're going to rebuild the other 3 a used one would make sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 · (Edited)
What exactly is the killer dowel pin repair?
I just ordered everything today, rebuild kit, new rod ($60), all bolts, thermostat, new oil pressure relief valve (mine busted when removing oil filter housing).

think I should get a new oil cooler? Someone recommended that. Was just gonna clean mine out. And change the oil and filter 3 times the first hour of running it lol

im really hoping my head is ok. Lolol. If not, I’m in for a new or used one, which will prob be 7mm injectors, that’s why check the head first before rebuild them with 9mm tips? Lol
 

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The KDP is an alignment dowel located inside the front gear housing. It's only purpose is to align the housing when you install it. Unfortunately, the engineers made the hole in the housing the same as the dowel so it sometimes has the bad habit of wandering out and getting into the gear housing. One of several things can occur. One is it just winds up falling out and ends up in the oil pan, two, it gets wedged between as gear and the aluminum housing causing it to break, and three it gets into the gears and you don't want to know how bad that can be. The fix is simple. There is a bolt right beside that hole. You can make a little tab of metal to install under that bolt to cover the hole. No rocket science there. While doing this, you should remove all those bolts inside the gear housing. Clean the holes good and reinstall the bolts with blue loctite. Those bolts often work loose and can cause disasters too. Didn't know if you were replacing the oil pump or not. That one has a special torque sequence on the bolts. New pumps are often part of a rebuild and not all that expensive. On the oil cooler, don't often see them replaced unless it has ruptured. The 4b will have a 5 plate cooler and you should stay with that type. The 6bt has a 7 plate cooler and will fit but isn't recommended unless you were building a twin turbo engine. The oil filter housing has 2 valves. The oil pressure regulator valve is located under the hex plug on the front and the oil pressure relief valve is on the back side. Not sure which you are referring to. Also, pay attention to which style gasket your oil filter housing has. There are 2 different ones and rebuild kits often include both. There is only on type behind the oil cooler. Below are photos of the two gaskets. Yours is probably the first one but never know. That second style was used with the STORM blocks which started around 1998.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Ok, killer dowel pin repair - got it!
back timing housing cover bolts, blue loctite - got it!
My oil pump looked fine. not even any marks on it from metal in the engine. I didnt plan to replace it. but will look for a listing and see if its not too much. If I needed to replace it in the future, its not a bad job. I am pretty good at getting that front cover off now, haha. 1 hr and I had it apart and together again with the motor in the skid steer.

yes, I believe mine is the first gasket, if I remember correctly. I found out this motor is a little older than I though. case gave it a build year of 1991.
 

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Yes, 1991 would be the older style gasket. If you do a water pump, there were more styles of those darn things than you can shake a stick at. In general, they came either open impeller or shielded. In general the shielded is preferred so if it fails you don't have little bits of metal all over your cooling system. Some newer models have plastic impellers. Some models you'll find look like they might fall apart if you sneezed on them and some look like they are built like a tank. And prices for those darn things runs all over the board from dirt cheap to very expensive. That last version is normally an OEM Cummins. The current water pump listed for your engine is Cummins part 5473238 which costs around $200 from the good old boys. See photo below. You notice how thick the blades of the impeller are and it's an open design. I suspect that is one of the newer plastic models. Metal blades were usually much thinner. The previous part numbers were 3286275, 3286278, and 3802971. 3286275 was a shielded impeller design.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Oh my that is a lot to swallow for just a water pump, lol. I wasnt planning on replacing mine either. didnt have issues before. looked fine when I took it apart but i will look closer again and see if I can tell which design it is, or if it feels like its going to fall apart. Again, not a real hard job to do later if it needs it.
 

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No, a Cummins water pump is probably the easiest one on any engine to change. Have you checked your fan hub. Not sure which one you have but it may be like the one in this diagram.
Font Auto part Circle Audio equipment Bicycle part


If so, that unit has a weak point. It has no bearing. I have never figured that one out but I assume some engineer thought it was a good idea. The diagram shows it mounting to the block but the notes say it's mounted to the head. One of those two is wrong because the bolt pattern on the head and block are different. Part 3909890 shown in that diagram mounts to the block but the same type that mounts to the head is part 3909888. It too has no bearing so I don't know which one you may have. The part number is usually on the casting and your parts manual might show a number too. Be interesting to know which you have. If it's tight or feels rough I don't know of any repair procedure on those other than replace it. If it happened to be the one in this diagram it is very expensive. Near $400. Here's photo of an actual unit. Of course 3909888 isn't going to be outdone so it lists for near $500 but you can get those made overseas under part number 4932912 for about $80-90. Bit of price markup there. LOL. Of course yours may be different than either of these.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
I remember you mentioning something about the oil nozzles inside the block. I was just looking at mine, you mean the ones down the bottom on top of the crank bearing housing that point upward toward the cylinders? those are the only ones I can find. and I see that one of mine is missing LOL. I didnt ask if they came with rebuild kit, I guess we will find out soon, hopefully they did!
 

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Yes, those are the piston cooling nozzles. Is it possible the one you are missing was the bad cylinder? Those aren't totally necessary for a non turbo but having one missing on a turbo engine is death. Those little nozzles are made of plastic or nylon and you have to be careful when you install them not to break them. There are aftermarket aluminum replacements that are around $10 each. Mostly, those are for guys running higher performance turbo engines.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
No it was on a different cylinder. and i actually found it, it fell out and was on the floor. haha. I got my head checked, no cracks. my machine guy is going to get working on the valves, etc. and my parts should be here in a day or so and will get it bored and hopefully ready for reassembly end of next week.
 

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A good head saves you a good chunk of cash. Your parts kit should include new valve oil seals. There were 2 different styles of those. An early type ad a later model that was better. No telling which one you have.
 

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1972 F250 4x4, 78 d44, 3.55, np205, 200hp 4bt nv4500 in progress
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I remember you mentioning something about the oil nozzles inside the block. I was just looking at mine, you mean the ones down the bottom on top of the crank bearing housing that point upward toward the cylinders? those are the only ones I can find. and I see that one of mine is missing LOL. I didnt ask if they came with rebuild kit, I guess we will find out soon, hopefully they did!
I thought I was missing a nozzle also, either in #1 or #4, but if you look closer, the cast is built up more at the tip of where the nozzle is on one of those cylinders. I saw that I had all 4 in there and there was just that one where the nozzle fits completely in the casting instead of protruding like the other 3. FWIW...
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
I put the motor together on Friday. Also got a call from my local diesel shop on friday saying they were having a hard time finding the parts now to rebuild my injectors. ughh, just what I figured was going to happen. that seems to be the trend with this thing..nothing is straight forward. the one that broke the nozzle nut, they say they need a core body to rebuild it, and they are having a hard time finding one. they say the others are good actually. my question is...if one broke and failed catastrophically like that, whose to say the others wont soon too? I asked them that, they said they looked good and didnt foresee any problems in the near future 🤷‍♂️

I am leaning back toward investigating these other injectors I got. in fact, I dropped them off at their shop as well, to have them test them and inspect them, see if they look and perform exactly to spec, and if everything else is correct, like that nozzle length and spray angle, etc. hopefully answers to those questions will eliminate some confusion.
these are exactly what I got: 4x Fuel Injectors J919331 Fits Case-IH Skid Steer 1840 1845C Backhoe 580 Super | eBay

So you said you seem to think that they are probably correct? obviously using that sleeve to neck them up to 9mm. i notice the angle of the tip is slightly different too, is that for the spray angle? does that mean the spray angles are different from one another?
 

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I thought I was missing a nozzle also, either in #1 or #4, but if you look closer, the cast is built up more at the tip of where the nozzle is on one of those cylinders. I saw that I had all 4 in there and there was just that one where the nozzle fits completely in the casting instead of protruding like the other 3. FWIW...
Get in touch with Area Diesel Service they are the best when it comes to anything diesel injection .800*637-2658 .
 
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