[dhennis8080]

Hello all. I am new to this forum and hope with all the wonderfull posts I've read, I can glean what I need. I found a 2007 stepvan with a "4.5L POWER STROKE & INTERNATIONAL VT275 TURBODIESEL "... on "facecrap"... The current owner says the engine will not start, and the onboard info center indicates, "no J1939 activity," which I take to mean that the computer is not talking to the engine. Oh, and my plan is to surgically remove the engine and required components from the van and use it in my project vehicle. Several questions at this point. 1- Is this a good option engine to use? 2- is my first basic assumption correct that there needs to be a link reconnected in the computer? 3- Can anybody tell me if I can adapt the drive end of this engine to my 5R110 auto tranny I want to use? Since the engine has less than 78K on the clock, I thought that it might be a good lo-miles swap without doing all the massive overhauling I see so many needing to do BEFORE installing in the project. I lucked out on my first build several years ago, and "Chad" (from before Quick Draw), sent me a good, used 4bt that I simply cleaned up and used for a couple years before selling it to get another. Any help would be appreciated, I understand that any advise is worth just what I paid for it...

 

[dhennis8080]

I just discovered that the tranny it is presently attached to is the same as I have, so baring other complications would take the entire powertrain for the swap...

 

[irhunter]

Was the owner able to pull codes?

 

[dhennis8080]

Not yet. The owner is not familiar with this action. I'm still wondering, if, the engine is actually good, is the inherent complexity of the electronic and spatial restrictions, would I be better off to just bite the bullet and get a 140-170 HP 4bt and go the mechanical way. I've done the mechanical route and am comfortable with it. So I think it is a fair assumption the tranny issue is not an issue. (Question #3) With regards of Question #1, I don't want to end up with a "6.4 maintenance monster" or similar... And according to many of the conversion experts, if the electronics are going to be a nightmare or cause me to loose factory options, then again the mechanical route would be much easier and is proven enough for me. My wife is hoping this will not be another "garage queen."

 

[irhunter]

Well, even if it was running, it would be an apples-to-oranges deal...relative to the 4BT.

V6, electronic, emissions, probably smooth and quiet.

Versus: one of that stuff.

 

[char1355]

Most of the guys on the forum tend to avoid the computer controlled engines. Of course the transmission your favor is computer controlled but it can be made to work with a mechanical diesel with a stand alone controller. The VT275 was only 200 HP. A 4bt mildly tuned can easily equal that. Of course, most of the used engines we see in the market place from Cummins are the ISB computer controlled versions. An adapter to join the 5R110 to a B series Cummins costs $795. The flex plate is $625 and a 6.0 starter is $199. A PCS transmission controller is $1034 and you'd need a TPS. So you can marry a 5R110 to a mechanical Cummins for around $3000. You can sort of see why most guys use manual transmissions.

 

[dhennis8080]

I am glad I am not forgetting too much. I saw the Destroked and G-Force options. and that was the first aveneu I started down when I determined that the 5.4 was a "non-starter" for this engine fix job. I have seen where a person harvested the wiring abd ECM out of one of these bread trucks line I found. But the article never gave an outcome. So I wondered if it was too complex, or if the project lost too many factory options like all 5 speeds, no trailer lock-out, speedometer readout, or worse. At lease with the mechanical there are published fixes for all the afore mentioned stuff.

I guess my concern was trying to match the factory published specs for the 5.4 gasser, (295-327 HP, and 345-369 ft.lb for a 9k GVW). The Youtube video from Power Driven Diesel with the Kuntz brothers offers some promise.

I guess at this point, I need more advise on the 130-170 HP factory-rated 4bt engines I've heard of, and how should I go to get what we all want, the mostest for the leastest. I see the importers on face crap and eBay offering "grey" engines, or I can spend a bunch at Big Bear Engine CO, in Colorado... I'd sure like some help finding something around a 100k miles, that I could drop in for the next 3-5 few years I'd own it... My son or grandson can do what they want after I'm gone.

As I see it, the 5.4 gasser was going to be $5K plus a mechanic well versed in speaking computer ($$$$$) and being connected at the pocket book for life ($$$$$$), or a Cummins (or equal) install I can do at the above mentioned $3K, plus the mechanical engine for some where around $3-7.5K, and be my own mechanic again, (or as my wife says "be a REAL MAN again).

Anybody know of a complete engine to be had???

 

[irhunter]

What is the truck you want this motor for? An F150?

Roy

 

[dhennis8080]

I have a 2008 F250 SD /SC with a blown 5.4. It has a 5R110 auto tranny that a couple companies say is the same one (with a lower stall torque converter ) that is used in the 6.4TD. I watched several videos where folks have simply opened up the wiring harness and used as much as they could with adapters and comp senders, and the rest was bobbed off.
Especially anything that was an actuator control.

That is exactly what I did with my 99' Wrangler. The only problem it ever had, was the crappy 1.5 gen ECU would loose itself, and I would have to quickly switch off and then back on the ignition. That was annoying. I was told of folks that got newer ECUs that didn't have the issue.

My 250-SD is an ultra-basic unit I got from a contractor tapped to retire State Highway District vehicles in St. Louis. I just hope I can find something in the higher HP 4BT range for the install. It is replacing my 2.8L/D Liberty with over 360" miles on it.

 

[char1355]

The big issue you will run into with the 3.9 or 4.5 common rail engines is they only have SAE2 or SAE3 adapter plates for the transmission. That complicates things a lot for the 5R110. All the adapter plates are designed for the standard B series 3.9 or 5.9 or the Dodge 5.9 or 6.7. I mention the Dodges separately because they are really ISB engines after 1998 but kept the front gear train like the earlier B series.

 

[irhunter]

2008 F250 sounds like it needs a 12-valve 6BT. Around here, they are more available and cheaper than the 4BT.

Of course, they become less available all the time.

Roy

 

[char1355]

Roy, I'd agree there. Plenty of mechanical 6bt engines available, you could mate them to the 5R110, and power level is yours to choose. Also, aftermarket engine mount for those year trucks so no design work required. All you have to get around is all those computer controls in the dash.

 

[dhennis8080]

I had thought the PCS controller would take care of most of it. And the Tach sensor kit should take care of the tach. Is there more I've not thought of?

 

[dhennis8080]

Us there anybody offering an adapter plate for the 4BT rear gear engine?

 

[char1355]

Depends on what transmission. Engines came with either SAE2 or SAE3. The ones equipped with automatics were SAE3 and the manuals were SAE2. Not many were manual. There are bellhousing for the NV4500 to SAE. For other transmissions, Phoenix Casting and Machining has adapters that will work with some. What transmission are you looking to do?

 

[dhennis8080]

I plan to use my existing Ford 5R110 auto tranny. From what I have been able to research without actually having a rear geared engine to measure from, there is nobody making the adapter plate to go in the gear train yet. The adapter in not so much an issue because I have some machinist background, and a small mill in my shop. I am somewhat concerned with that is required in the computer mating of the ISB computer to the ford computer. I haven't found much on the Cummins computers yet.

 

[char1355]

The rear gear train transmission adapter is a bit more complicated than the regular B series. The rear train adapter plate is pretty complex. HP Imports has one for GM automatics but no Fords so far. Theirs bolts on to the existing housing and uses a custom flex plate. That rear housing is in 2 parts. One part contains all the gearing and mounts for the injection pump and the other part contains the flywheel and starter. It's that second part you'd need to make for a Ford setup. I'm sure it can be done, just no one has done it yet. Destroked has a flex plate that you might be able to work with for the 5R110. You'd just have to engineer the adapter plate. I'm sure it will happen eventually since most all new Cummins have the rear train. Here's what the part looks like you'd need to replace.

 

[dhennis8080]

Thank you so much for the close-ups. That really sheds the light on it. I shouldn't say it here without having my engine out yet, but it looks like a person could make a new plate like the G-Force and Destroked with the 6.4 starter setup. Then add a piece of plate with the gear train pattern. Guess I need to just jump in. The Destroked layout is a good place to start, ... and then modify, modify, modify. I see Chad over at Quick Draw has a couple of "potentual running cores", but some of them have the rear plates removed...

 

[dhennis8080]

It seems the rear geared engines are a bit less cost too...

 

[dhennis8080]

Does any body know where a person could get a pinout on the 4bt CR computer? I'd prefer mechanical, but if the ISB is solvable, ... All I can see between the mech. and the ISB is the electronic firing od the injection. Is there more? I can see there might be sensors for heat, possibly turbo load, but really, what is it that makes folks cringe? (Enquiring minds want to know)