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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can anyone recommend where I can get a 4BT (SAA4D102E-2) rebuilt?

I'm in Sullivan County, NY.

Thank you.
 

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WHERE DO YOU LIVE . Fill out you profile .
In my town our local machine shop WOULD BE THE BEST PLACE TO TAKE IT for an Overhaul.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
WHERE DO YOU LIVE . Fill out you profile .
In my town our local machine shop WOULD BE THE BEST PLACE TO TAKE IT for an Overhaul.
i don’t know of any.

im in Sullivan County, NY. Ulster and orange counties would be fine also.
 

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I would call the nearest Cummins parts distributor, and ask who their customers are using to rebuild motors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I've been trying to get this info from Cummins and from Komatsu, both in the US and Japan, and no one can help.

I have a Komatsu D37ex-21A with a SAA4d102-e engine, ESN 26363507 and need a replacement.

That ESN cannot be identified -- I think because it was made in Japan.

Does anyone have any way to look up the specs?

Thank you!
 

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That engine serial number does not come up in Cummins Quick Serve. Found another engine of the same model with ESN 26378861. It doesn't show in Quick Server either but shows some specs. It is CPL 8148 and has 80 HP @ 2000 RPM. Appears to have a Bosch model A injection pump which is quite common for industrial engines. Governor speed of 2000 RPM seem kind of low but it may only be driving a hydraulic pump. There are some engines that do not show on Quick Server and only a Cummins shop can access those. Might contact member CrewCab59, He's a Cummins dealer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
That engine serial number does not come up in Cummins Quick Serve. Found another engine of the same model with ESN 26378861. It doesn't show in Quick Server either but shows some specs. It is CPL 8148 and has 80 HP @ 2000 RPM. Appears to have a Bosch model A injection pump which is quite common for industrial engines. Governor speed of 2000 RPM seem kind of low but it may only be driving a hydraulic pump. There are some engines that do not show on Quick Server and only a Cummins shop can access those. Might contact member CrewCab59, He's a Cummins dealer.
My engine's CPL is 8149 and rated at 91hp at 2000rpm.

Here's some pics of the engine -- can you ID what type of pump it has:
 

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Yeah, I noticed there were about a half dozen different CPL numbers used in the Komatsu line. Interestingly yours has that odd valve cover with the spout. Notice your cap is missing. If you need one the Cummins part number is 3863454. That valve cover is down right expensive and that cap is like $40 unless you get it out of China. Cap over there is $2 but don't know what the shipping would be. Engines like yours were made specifically for Komatsu and their ESN doesn't show up in the regular Cummins line. I'm pretty sure a regular dealer can access them.

PS. If you're looking for specific parts for an industrial 4bt I may be able to help some. Things like bearings, rings, pistons, gaskets, seals, etc are pretty common across the line.If that is a Bosch A pump I can also find injectors. There should be a tag on the side with the Bosch part #. Could be another brand too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
These pics were taken mid-way through replacing the injectors (which I had hoped would fix my problem, but didn't).

I don't know what kind of pump it has -- from what I can see, knowing this is important for the rebuilt or replacement.

Wish I had know that you had parts -- it's always a hassle identifying and locating the right parts of these. I know now!

I'm now wondering if I might be better off replacing the engine.
 

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I don't have parts but can provide you with part numbers. What kind .of issues were you having with the engine? You said you replaced injectors but that didn't cure the issues. On the injection pump there appears to be a tag near the top that can probably identify the pump. One thing I was wondering is whether this is a turbo engine or non turbo which would be a 4b.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'll see if I can find a tag near the top of the injection pump

It has a turbo. No oil inside/leaking.

Burning oil very quickly, black smoke, loss of power.
 

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OK, the problem could be one or two things or a combination of them. Lack of power and black smoke indicated fuel mixture is too rich. Too much diesel and not enough air. Chief suspect would be the turbo. You've already changed injectors and I'm assuming you got the correct ones for that engine. If you have the wrong injectors that too can cause a lack of power. If you'll pull one and look on the body you should see a number like 245 bar. That is the pop pressure of the injector. If you accidentally got P7100 injectors which are 260 bar your pump timing would be retarded and performance would be like a dead dog. Not sure which turbo you have but a rebuild kit is not expensive and something you may do yourself. If it's an HX30W or higher then there no balancing needed should you replace a compressor wheel. HX27W and lower require balancing. If the oil seal in the turbo has gone bad that would also account for it burning oil. I'd say rebuild the turbo and see whether that cures it. The second group of issues could be internal on the engine. Worn rings or valve seals would cause a lot of oil consumption but the smoke would tend to be more blue than black. Black usually indicates an engine running too rich. Might remove the exhaust manifold and look at the ports. If they are just black but not oily then valve seals probably aren't an issue. Do you have a boost gauge on the machine? That would be very useful in knowing the turbo is actually producing boost. Another issue that comes to mind could be a boost leak. Loss of boost pressure due to an air leak also creates an overly rich fuel situation and poor power. You could perform a compression test to see if there is any significant variation between cylinders. If the numbers are reasonably close then you don't have ring problems. Most of these things can be checked and won't cost you anything but a little time other than a turbo rebuild if necessary. Another thing, the more I look at your injection pump the less I believe it is a Bosch model. Leaning toward either Zexel or Denso unit.
 

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That injection pump is a Zexel, not a Bosch. If you'll clean the dirt off the area just below where the lines output I think there may be a tag or tags there. Below is a photo of a 6 cylinder model and you can see where the tags are. It doesn't look to be an embossed tag but just a foil one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
That injection pump is a Zexel, not a Bosch. If you'll clean the dirt off the area just below where the lines output I think there may be a tag or tags there. Below is a photo of a 6 cylinder model and you can see where the tags are. It doesn't look to be an embossed tag but just a foil one.
I had an interesting moment yesterday: I went to clean the tag on the injection pump and discovered that the reason I didn't realize there was a tag there was because the tag was covered, very carefully, neatly and intentionally, with regular gray duck tape (which was covered in soot/dirt/grease).

When I peeled the tape, I found the tag (below).

But now I wonder if the tape was put on during a rebuild of the engine or for some other reason that required protecting it (painting engine?)?

So now I'm faced with a decision between $10,000 for a local guy to rebuild the engine ($3k for the kit/parts and $7k for the labor), or buy a new engine (4BT 3.9L 105HP Extended Long Block) for $8,500 delivered and another $3k to swap it in). Ugh.

Light Automotive tire Motor vehicle Font Wall
 

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OK, you have an identity on the injection pump. The tape could have well been put there when the engine was being painted. Even at todays prices, $10,000 sounds a bit steep for a rebuild. These are not complex engines. The $3000 in parts may not be out of align depending on what all that covers. Many of our members do their own rebuild work except where some machine work may be required like boring the block. On most rebuilds you would replace gaskets, seals, bearings, rod bolts, and likely head bolts. All those parts would be $1000 or less with some shopping. If the engine needs boring then new pistons and rings would be required. Those can be found pretty cheap these days. Maybe around $400-500 for a complete set. Can even be cheaper with some shopping. If the turbo needs rebuilding those kits are around $100 or less. Do you know which turbo the engine has? It would have an ID tag too. If the injection pump needs rebuilding that will be more expensive. In the neighborhood of $1000. There could be some other misc parts like valves or lifters that may need replacing. Did the guy giving you the quote specify what parts are in that $3000? If your guys charge $100/hr for labor they are figuring 70 hrs. That seems a bit excessive. If the engine is out of the vehicle you can tear one down in a couple hours. If you went the route of buying a long block assembly, you may have to transfer your front gear housing to the new one. Lots to consider. Where are you located?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
OK, you have an identity on the injection pump. The tape could have well been put there when the engine was being painted. Even at todays prices, $10,000 sounds a bit steep for a rebuild. These are not complex engines. The $3000 in parts may not be out of align depending on what all that covers. Many of our members do their own rebuild work except where some machine work may be required like boring the block. On most rebuilds you would replace gaskets, seals, bearings, rod bolts, and likely head bolts. All those parts would be $1000 or less with some shopping. If the engine needs boring then new pistons and rings would be required. Those can be found pretty cheap these days. Maybe around $400-500 for a complete set. Can even be cheaper with some shopping. If the turbo needs rebuilding those kits are around $100 or less. Do you know which turbo the engine has? It would have an ID tag too. If the injection pump needs rebuilding that will be more expensive. In the neighborhood of $1000. There could be some other misc parts like valves or lifters that may need replacing. Did the guy giving you the quote specify what parts are in that $3000? If your guys charge $100/hr for labor they are figuring 70 hrs. That seems a bit excessive. If the engine is out of the vehicle you can tear one down in a couple hours. If you went the route of buying a long block assembly, you may have to transfer your front gear housing to the new one. Lots to consider. Where are you located?
The parts includes just the rebuild kit.

I'm in Sullivan County, NY (not far from Ulster County and Orange County).
 

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The term rebuild kit really doesn't tell you anything. You can find 4bt rebuild kits including pistons for around
$600. Now that isn't coming from the local Cummins store. From them it might be 2 or 3 times that much and if it's coming from Komatsu the cost probably goes up again and the guy selling them to you for the rebuild adds his cost onto it too. First off, I'd want a somewhat detail of what all that rebuild kit includes. If it's just bearings, gaskets, seals, and pistons then that price of $3000 is ridiculous. Now if it includes a rebuilt turbo and injection pump it's a good price. Don't know what the hourly labor rate is in your area, but $7000 seem a bit steep. What ability do you have? Can you physically remove the engine from the machine or will that have to be done by the rebuilder? Know that these engines are not light. It weighs around 750 lbs. Is there a Cummins store anywhere in your area? If there is, they too do rebuilds. Need to get some comparative quotes. We have members who could probably do it but that would mean shipping it which is an added cost. Member CrewCab59 is in Tennessee and he is a Cummins dealer. From the issues you've mentioned I'm not all that sure the engine needs a complete overhaul. The #1 thing I would recommend is do a compression test. If that shows cylinders with wide variation then a rebuild is probably warranted. I'd next aim at the turbo. You can rebuild those yourself or have someone do it for you. Like I said, a kit is around $100 plus whatever labor they charge to tear it down and reassemble. You already have it off the engine so taking it to a shop should be simple enough. They can check it out and tell you what it will cost. From your description of the problems I strongly suspect the turbo could be a big part of it. If a compression test shows a cylinder with poor compression then worn or broken piston rings are likely. Guess I'm kind of cheap, but hate spending money if I can avoid it.
 
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