Im trying very hard to acquire a 4bt. but i need alittle help with the transmition setup before i get the motor. looking to go nv4500 5 speed. the 4bts usually have the th400 from the p30s?, so what would need to be done to bolt up a NV4500 from a 89 Chevy. thats all i know about the trans right now, this guy i know is trying to sell it to me, but i want to make sure its useful first. so what do you think?
Newbie needs Help, tranny Q
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Pre 96 GM nv4500 will not bolt. They use a different bolt pattern on the bellhousing. A dodge or 96-present GM (they are externally the same) will work if you put the dodge bellhousing on it. '
I used a GM version to avoid the fifth gear weakness found in the dodge versions
I used a GM version to avoid the fifth gear weakness found in the dodge versions
Let me get this straight...
Ok, i dont know awhole lot about this kinda stuff, so hang with me alittle. Ok, lets say I get a 96 or newer GM NV4500(because they are stronger overall, esp 5th gear?) then do i have to use a dodge bellhousing to mate it to the 4bt? im guessing i would have to use an adapter to bolt the dodge bellhousing to the GM NV4500, correct? then regardless, what flywheel, clutch assmebly do i use, dodge or GM(chevy). please reply in idiot terms for me, like i said im new and dont understand must of this stuff. Im trying to build my fj40 setup right, so Thanks for anyhelp guys.
Ok, i dont know awhole lot about this kinda stuff, so hang with me alittle. Ok, lets say I get a 96 or newer GM NV4500(because they are stronger overall, esp 5th gear?) then do i have to use a dodge bellhousing to mate it to the 4bt? im guessing i would have to use an adapter to bolt the dodge bellhousing to the GM NV4500, correct? then regardless, what flywheel, clutch assmebly do i use, dodge or GM(chevy). please reply in idiot terms for me, like i said im new and dont understand must of this stuff. Im trying to build my fj40 setup right, so Thanks for anyhelp guys.
OK these cummins guys get a little dodge brainwashed sometimes ( I can say that I have an 04 Ram CTD).
You basically have two popular routes with parts readily available for a 5 speed swap.
1. if you get the Chevy bellhousing adapter that is in the P30 that originally had the TH400 behind it and the starter that was originally bolted in it, you have a 10 degree tilt/offset that I'm guessing they used to get the 4BT to fit in those step vans. It will mate to a standard Chevy bellhousing, ie TH400, NV4500 (chevy version with bellhousing on it), 700r4.... you get the drift. Now you need a chevy flywheel that they used on the cummins/sm465 combo in the 4 spd p30 vans and a clutch setup from a hd chevy truck.
2. you can go all dodge parts with the flywheel, dodge bellhousing adapter, dodge nv4500, dodge clutch, dodge starter. You can hybrid the GM NV4500 that is later that 96 with the dodge parts by putting the dodge bellhousing on it and swapping the input shaft to the dodge version.
correct me if I'm wrong guys but I'm pretty sure this is the information that I assembled over the years.
other than those two routes you have an infinite amount of combinations that you could blend up limited only by your talent, wallet or imagination.
You basically have two popular routes with parts readily available for a 5 speed swap.
1. if you get the Chevy bellhousing adapter that is in the P30 that originally had the TH400 behind it and the starter that was originally bolted in it, you have a 10 degree tilt/offset that I'm guessing they used to get the 4BT to fit in those step vans. It will mate to a standard Chevy bellhousing, ie TH400, NV4500 (chevy version with bellhousing on it), 700r4.... you get the drift. Now you need a chevy flywheel that they used on the cummins/sm465 combo in the 4 spd p30 vans and a clutch setup from a hd chevy truck.
2. you can go all dodge parts with the flywheel, dodge bellhousing adapter, dodge nv4500, dodge clutch, dodge starter. You can hybrid the GM NV4500 that is later that 96 with the dodge parts by putting the dodge bellhousing on it and swapping the input shaft to the dodge version.
correct me if I'm wrong guys but I'm pretty sure this is the information that I assembled over the years.
other than those two routes you have an infinite amount of combinations that you could blend up limited only by your talent, wallet or imagination.
Im almost getting it, not quiet though
ok, i like the chevy GM version better. are you saying that the only GM bellhousing i can use is the 10degree tilted one that would come on the 4bt th400 setup, or can i use a different chevy housing(one that isnt tilted)? So the flywheel i would need only comes from the cummins/sm465 combo? does this include the 6bts aswell, or what other vechical could i get it from, i guess im asking if they are hard to find.
ok, i like the chevy GM version better. are you saying that the only GM bellhousing i can use is the 10degree tilted one that would come on the 4bt th400 setup, or can i use a different chevy housing(one that isnt tilted)? So the flywheel i would need only comes from the cummins/sm465 combo? does this include the 6bts aswell, or what other vechical could i get it from, i guess im asking if they are hard to find.
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as rare as hens teeth
The flywheel is as rare as hens teeth, I know I'm still looking. I called a cummins parts dealer and found out that I could get a new flywheel for $872 plus shipping would cost 15-25% of the purchase price. The only reason I heard the shipping part was because the phone landed near my head when I fell down from the sticker shock.
It seems that it would be cheaper to grab a dodge adapter housing off ebay and a flywheel as well. The dodge adapter does not have the 10* tilt like the chevy adapter has. I do not know if they sell a chevy adapter without the tilt, but I would bet it would be a lot cheaper to go the dodge route. This comming from a guy who owns a 4bta with a chevy th475 behind it and is still looking for a cheap flywheel.
Mattehw
The flywheel is as rare as hens teeth, I know I'm still looking. I called a cummins parts dealer and found out that I could get a new flywheel for $872 plus shipping would cost 15-25% of the purchase price. The only reason I heard the shipping part was because the phone landed near my head when I fell down from the sticker shock.
It seems that it would be cheaper to grab a dodge adapter housing off ebay and a flywheel as well. The dodge adapter does not have the 10* tilt like the chevy adapter has. I do not know if they sell a chevy adapter without the tilt, but I would bet it would be a lot cheaper to go the dodge route. This comming from a guy who owns a 4bta with a chevy th475 behind it and is still looking for a cheap flywheel.
Mattehw
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Have a read of this post on coloradoK5 it contains alot of good info.
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121702
IMO I would go all dodge, you get a bigger I/P shaft 1.25" as opposed to 1.125"
Probably wouldn't need it but I'd rather have it, also you get a much better choice of clutches with a dodge nv4500. I have seen pics of a nearly new BB chevy clutch torn up behind a 4BT. If you go all dodge anything that was behind a 6BT will bolt up behind a 4BT. It has been said that chevy nv4500 doesn't have 5th gear nut problems because they don't have enough torque to bother it, I don't know. Don't go chevy just because you can get a cheap nv4500 , you could probably get a cheapish dodge nv if you look. Have a good read , ask lots of Qs before you make your mind up.
Gaza
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121702
IMO I would go all dodge, you get a bigger I/P shaft 1.25" as opposed to 1.125"
Probably wouldn't need it but I'd rather have it, also you get a much better choice of clutches with a dodge nv4500. I have seen pics of a nearly new BB chevy clutch torn up behind a 4BT. If you go all dodge anything that was behind a 6BT will bolt up behind a 4BT. It has been said that chevy nv4500 doesn't have 5th gear nut problems because they don't have enough torque to bother it, I don't know. Don't go chevy just because you can get a cheap nv4500 , you could probably get a cheapish dodge nv if you look. Have a good read , ask lots of Qs before you make your mind up.
Gaza
Ok, So the Dodge bellhousing needs an adapter(from AA?) to bolt to 4bt? then use a dodge flywheel(get this from where?) and the dodge NV4500(what model trucks to look for to get this 4500, and are the slave cylinder inside or outside the housing?). Does this about cover it or am i even in the same ballpark as you guys?
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To bolt a dodge NV4500 to a 4BT you need an engine adapter plate for a dodge off a 6BT, common in the US. Ebay 300082447058 you need adapter from 94-02 which are the years the NV4500 was used. If you were to buy a South Bend clutch SBC you would get a flywheel with it at the moment at least that is what Piers Diesel are telling me. All off the shelf dodge parts. JMO
Gaza
Gaza
Thanks alot Gaza. Sorry for being so annoying, just trying to understand. My plan is to have enough to convince the pops that ive done enough research and thought the plan out enough that he will help with costs.
Clearing up: The engine adapter plate, Ebay 300082447058, is what i would need to bolt the 94-02 NV4500 transmition to the 4bt, and this would have the engine sit upright too correct? . And i keep seeing SBC all the time, even in other forums and ive yet to figure it out, what the heck does it mean? but your saying if i buy a new South Bend Clutch SBC that i would get the flywheel i need with it(atleast thats what Pier Diesel says)? And are any of those (94-02) nv4500 electronic in anyway?
Did you know if the slave cylinder was inside or outside the housing, b/c i remember reading somewhere that some do have them inside. I dont care for that
Clearing up: The engine adapter plate, Ebay 300082447058, is what i would need to bolt the 94-02 NV4500 transmition to the 4bt, and this would have the engine sit upright too correct? . And i keep seeing SBC all the time, even in other forums and ive yet to figure it out, what the heck does it mean? but your saying if i buy a new South Bend Clutch SBC that i would get the flywheel i need with it(atleast thats what Pier Diesel says)? And are any of those (94-02) nv4500 electronic in anyway?
Did you know if the slave cylinder was inside or outside the housing, b/c i remember reading somewhere that some do have them inside. I dont care for that
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1974FJ ask as many Qs as you like some one will be able to answer.
SBC stans for Small Block Chevy or South Bend Clutch depends on the context it is used. I have 2 of those adapters outside, don't know the No offhand its way past my bedtime in the UK now but if its a 94-2002 which is when dodge used the NV4500 it will fit. any earlier and it was for the getrag 5 speed any later and it was for the NV5600. flywheel,Ring Piers and check but thats what they told me. All nv4500 have no electronics except the reverse switch. You can get a chevy NV4500(1996+) and change the I/P shaft to a dodge easily if you have a chevy t/case it will fit right up depends which side your pumpkins are on , could be the best of both worlds but if you do go that route it has to be a chevy nv4500 from 96 and newer as thats when dodge & chevy bolt patterns for the bellhousing became common, These are the 4 bolt holes on the front of the NV4500 that bolt to the bellhousing I hope I'm not confusing you even more. just trying to give you all the info before you spend. Time for bed. nearly forgot yes if you go all dodge the motor & tranny sit level. I personally don't think the tilt is a bad thing, it could move the oil pan away from the pumpkin, depends on which side its on. most people dont like the look of it.
Gaza
SBC stans for Small Block Chevy or South Bend Clutch depends on the context it is used. I have 2 of those adapters outside, don't know the No offhand its way past my bedtime in the UK now but if its a 94-2002 which is when dodge used the NV4500 it will fit. any earlier and it was for the getrag 5 speed any later and it was for the NV5600. flywheel,Ring Piers and check but thats what they told me. All nv4500 have no electronics except the reverse switch. You can get a chevy NV4500(1996+) and change the I/P shaft to a dodge easily if you have a chevy t/case it will fit right up depends which side your pumpkins are on , could be the best of both worlds but if you do go that route it has to be a chevy nv4500 from 96 and newer as thats when dodge & chevy bolt patterns for the bellhousing became common, These are the 4 bolt holes on the front of the NV4500 that bolt to the bellhousing I hope I'm not confusing you even more. just trying to give you all the info before you spend. Time for bed. nearly forgot yes if you go all dodge the motor & tranny sit level. I personally don't think the tilt is a bad thing, it could move the oil pan away from the pumpkin, depends on which side its on. most people dont like the look of it.
Gaza
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The Gm Nv4500 has a different style of rear output shaft and nut ,it has nothing to do with the power.I have been running a Gm Nv4500 with the Dodge input for 5 yrs with my 5.9 .
CrewCab59
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I am glad to hear it as one of my BTs will be getting just that a chevy nv4500 with a dodge I/P shaft.
Gaza
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trans swap
Ditto. You can run the early GM nv4500, but due to its scarceness, price, and precticalitiy..... I dont even go down that road. I purchased a newly rebuilt GM NV4500 and had the input swaped to a dodge 1 1/4" input. Engine adapters lately have been nringing only 80 bucks or so. Bellhousing a little more. Get some 3/8" 16 thread per inch (coarse thread) 1 3/4" bolts to joins the adapter plate to bellhousing.
Ditto. You can run the early GM nv4500, but due to its scarceness, price, and precticalitiy..... I dont even go down that road. I purchased a newly rebuilt GM NV4500 and had the input swaped to a dodge 1 1/4" input. Engine adapters lately have been nringing only 80 bucks or so. Bellhousing a little more. Get some 3/8" 16 thread per inch (coarse thread) 1 3/4" bolts to joins the adapter plate to bellhousing.
Aren't there tons of great diesel engines available in the UK?
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