[Aquatech3]

Just picked up a QSB 4.5 and would like to know if someone could point me in the right thread direction on how to convert the electronic Vp30 pump to mechanical. Thanks

Steve

 

[char1355]

We've seen several of those QSB4.5-30 engines showing up recently. Here is one along the lines of what you want to do. QSB4.5-30 to VE Pump Build Has Started Don't know what your power plans are but that engine is not designed to the same specs as the 4bt 3.9. It has lighter weight connecting rods to accommodate the longer stroke. Stock engines only went to 100 HP. Which injection pump do you plan to use? You will find this is not exactly a cheap conversion. For example, if you go with the VE pump you will need a lot of other parts beside the pump. The front gear housing is different. You'll need that, the pump drive gear, lift pump and all the associated plumbing, injection lines, and probably injectors. Unless you can score some used parts, you're probably looking at near $2000 or more. The big chunk will be the injection pump.

 

[Aquatech3]

@GLTHFJ60 sent me the same thread a few days ago and I read through all of it which was a good amount of information. I was looking for a little bit more specific information on regarding part numbers and such and just was not sure if anybody had built a thread like that yet. I went ahead and used my ESN for the QSB and The ESN for Johnny’s 4bt and cross referenced all of the parts that I need to change over to see if anything was the same and the pump drive gear is the same for both engines and pumps according to everything I have found. Also I plan to shim my injectors to get the desired pop pressure. Here is the list of the parts I will be sourcing to do my conversion based off the 4BT with a VE pump:

VE pump-3917530
Gear housing-3920758
Front gear cover-3903794
Gear housing gasket-3931351
Front cover gasket-3914385
Front crankshaft oil seal-3935959
Transfer pump-3928143
HX30W super turbo
Exhaust manifold-3901635
Injector seals X4-3930324

 

[char1355]

Those are some of the base parts but there are quite a few more pieces to that puzzle. Injection pump 3917530 would be a good one. That is a pre emissions model that does not have the KSB option so that won't need the sensor and wiring for that. For that pump you will need the following parts:
3905313 Pump Support Brace
3900630 M8x1.25x20mm Flange head bolts 3 required
3902501 M8x1.25x47.98mm double ended stud 3 required
3900589 M8x1.25 Flange head nuts 3 required
3931607 Pump gasket (this part is obsolete and shows no replacement)
4932713 Pump drive gear (old numbers were 3929032, 3931383, 3936021)

Next comes the air fuel control plumbing.
3282437 Air fuel control tube
3905391 Grommet
3918188 8mm Sealing washer 2 required
3910265 Male elbow
3924724 M8x1.00x17mm Banjo bolt

Next will be the lift pump and plumbing.
4983584 Fuel transfer pump (old numbers 3928143, 3966154, 3970880)
3905649 Fuel supply line
3939258 Gasket (old numbers 3923054, 3931059, 3931348)
3963983 Sealing washer 2 required (old numbers 3918191, 3935171)
3903035 M12x1.50x24mm Banjo bolt
3900631 M8x1.25x25mm Flange head bolt 2 required

Not sure about your fuel filter arrangement but here is the normal parts for this setup.
3925954 M16x1.50x33.5 Filter head adapter
3286503 FS1251 Fuel filter (old number 3931062)
3963983 Sealing washer 2 required (old numbers 3918191, 3935171)
3911446 M12x1.50x24 Special banjo bolt
3939570 Captive washer cap screw (old number 3905403)

Now for the major mess of plumbing. With your current injection lines you may already have these support braces but I'll list them for you. With this group I'll show the item number in the drawing. You'll have to sort out what you have that is reusable.
1 3928759 Grommet seal 4 required
2 3900629 M8x1.25x16mm Flange head bolt 2 required
3 4942278 Banjo connector seal 4 required (old number 3903380)
4 3918109 M8x1.25x25mm Flange head bolt 2 required
5 3905307 M6x1.00x14.3mm Banjo bolt 4 required
6 3905388 Male T union
7 3905692 Fuel drain tube (return to fuel tank)
8 3905701 Fuel drain tube (from injection pump)
9 3920854 M5x.80x22mm cap screw 4 required
10 3903723 5mm plain washer 4 required
11 3919294 Tube brace
12 3904711 Tube brace 4 required
13 3917746 Vibration isolator 8 required
14 3903480 #1 Injector line
15 3903481 #2 Injector line
16 3919292 Tube brace
17 3903482 #3 Injector line
18 3903483 #4 Injector line
19 3909695 Fuel manifold
20 3905391 Grommet seal 3 required
21 3919296 Tube brace
22 3919381 Tube brace

Injectors specified for the VE pump engines is part 3802330 or 3802330RX for rebuilt units. Injector seals for the 7mm head are part 3906659. You need to verify what size injectors holes your head has. I suspect it is 7mm but original VE pump engines came with 9mm. Cummins no longer sells the 9mm injectors and these are the newer 7mm replacements that have the correct pop pressure and 12mm threads on top like the OEM 9mm units.
On the front gear housing, here are the part numbers.
1 3938156 Gear housing to block gasket (old numbers 3916131, 3931351)
2 3920758 Gear housing (old number 3802350)
3 3900633 M8x1.25x50mm Flange head bolts 10 required (reuse the old ones)
4 3924962 M8x1.25x16mm Flange head bolts 16 required (reuse the old ones)
5 3915772 O ring seal
6 3913994 O ring seal
7 3903924 Timing pin
8 3904849 Retaining ring
9 3919683 Timing pin housing
10 3907998 M5x.80x17mm Screw
11 3914385 Front cover gasket (this is normally done with RTV instead of the gasket)
12 3287075 Front cover (old numbers 3903794, 3286312)
13 3937111 Front crank seal kit (old number 3900709, 3904353)
14 3901446 M8X1.25X60mm Flange head bolt
15 3912772 Belt retainer

While you're in there be sure to do the killer dowel pin repair. In which position is you oil pan sump? If it is front you'll probably need to reverse the pan to rear position. To do that will require a new oil pump pickup unit. You will need a new oil pan gasket anyway.
3938162 Oil pan gasket (old number 3931602)
3905206 Rear sump pickup
3938157 Pickup gasket
3907860 M8x1.25x25mm flange head bolt (pickup brace to block)

Hope this helps. I hope I didn't mistype any of these part numbers. Are you changing exhaust manifolds? I see the Super HX30W turbo on your list. That one will require different oil line plumbing and air outlet elbow. Let me know if you need anything else.

 

[Aquatech3]

And now we have a detailed thread to reference for part numbers 😂…..thanks for the write up.

 

[char1355]

I have a couple engines with that exact injection pump and just went Quick Serve an looked at everything needed. I tried to double check the part numbers because quite a few have changed which is very common for Cummins. May go back an look again just to be sure I didn't type any numbers wrong. They were kind of getting blurry after about 3 hours of checking and typing. LOL.

 

[dustinf]

You could probably recoup some of the cost by selling the core to a fuel shop that rebuilds them. Good cores are hard to come by. I know of at least one that would be interested if you are looking to sell it. Or maybe you could work out a partial trade for a VE pump. Just a thought. I would assume the injection lines could be made to work pretty easily. The pump drive gear I believe is the same or very similar as well from what I've seen. Should be interesting.

 

[Aquatech3]

Yes I plan to sell the pump I have as it still functions fine which should help offset the cost of the VE pump

 

[char1355]

Dustin, the injection lines probably can't be made to work because the nuts on the ends may not be the right size. Depends on what size threads were on the 4.5 injectors. Original injectors in the 4.5 were Cummins part 3964919 which is Bosch part 0 432 133 773. Body is listed a KDAL50-P6 which I could find no info on.

 

[dustinf]

Dustin, the injection lines probably can't be made to work because the nuts on the ends may not be the right size. Depends on what size threads were on the 4.5 injectors. Original injectors in the 4.5 were Cummins part 3964919 which is Bosch part 0 432 133 773. Body is listed a KDAL50-P6 which I could find no info on.

That may be the case, but the injector bodies could probably be used just fine with a pressure reset. I know the nuts on the pump end are correct for a VE. The injectors are a KDAL59P6 holder which is a 14 mm inlet. The nozzle is a 6 hole 145 degree pattern. The injector part number you listed is used on a wide variety of A size inline and VE 4B 3.9 applications. Mostly later style VE pumps designed to handle the higher injection pressures of these injectors, so I would probably just drop the pressure to around 3550 PSI and call it a day. Just something I would look into before purchasing new lines and injectors.

 

[char1355]

The reason I'm not sure on the injectors is VE pump engines had 12mm threads on the injectors. That is pretty much unique to them. Most everything else is 14mm. I tried to research the injector body but haven't had much success.

 

[dustinf]

The reason I'm not sure on the injectors is VE pump engines had 12mm threads on the injectors. That is pretty much unique to them. Most everything else is 14mm. I tried to research the injector body but haven't had much success.

I happened to be able to look at a set of cores out of one of these engines. They are in fact 14mm thread on the injector end. And the holder number I took straight off of the injector. Functionality wise I'm not sure that matters, and the pump end is 12 mm like the VE. As long as the opening pressures are correct they should work just fine. I'm not sure about the hole size, so if the plan was to turn it up a bit I'd want to verify the injector hole area is sufficient to support the power without putting too much stress on the pump. If a person wanted to go a little larger someone like Dynomite could open them up some. With a little more research it's likely there's another nozzle that's suitable with larger holes.

 

[char1355]

If they have 14mm threads then new injection lines would be required for VE pump injectors which are 12mm.

 

[dustinf]

If they have 14mm threads then new injection lines would be required for VE pump injectors which are 12mm.

I'm talking about using the VP30 lines with the VE pump and resetting the pressures in the injectors that exist on the engine from the VP30 arrangement with 14mm inlets to better suit the VE. The only real difference between "VE" injectors and other injectors is the smaller inlet thread size. Otherwise the bodies are very similar. Yes, if you were to use 12mm inlet injectors the lines may need to be changed. Or you can use thread reducer bushings with 14 mm od and 12 mm id. I've seen it done on VE pumped 24 valves on the pump end so you can use the VP44 lines with the VE. I'm just throwing ideas out there to help keep cost down.