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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
With our project nearing completion, I want to give my wife an extra Christmas present- a remote starter for her Durango. I bought a 2-way that works with diesels and manual transmissions. I don't have it in my hands yet, but I'm hoping it will be able to work with the 4bt.

Here is how I plan to wire it up: I'll wire it up in the standard way, and hook up the glow plug circuit to run the grid heater. I also want to hook up a high speed switch by using an idle solenoid from a carburetor to operate the throttle when energized. I just want a simple on/off solenoid, and adjust it so that when energized, it will idle at around 1300 RPMs or so. I'll wire that in with a relay so that it will energize when the remote starter energizes the grid heater. When the starter button is pushed, it will energize the grid heater for a programmable time, and the idle solenoid will engage. When the time is up the starter cranks and the mighty Cummins should fire right up and run at high idle. There will be a switch on the dash to override the idle solenoid (won't need it in the summer, when starting to run the A/C), which will also disengage the solenoid before driving the Durango. I guess if I really wanted to get fancy I could also wire it up through the brake switch so that it can't be forgotten on.

So...have any others hooked up a remote starter to a 4bt? There are more and more 4bts getting swapped into daily drivers, so I'm sure I'm not the first who has thought about this.

Jim
 

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With our project nearing completion, I want to give my wife an extra Christmas present- a remote starter for her Durango. I bought a 2-way that works with diesels and manual transmissions. I don't have it in my hands yet, but I'm hoping it will be able to work with the 4bt...............I'm sure I'm not the first who has thought about this.

Jim
You may be the first, but not the only. I too have thought of this. I'm wondering about the manual transmission. Does the remote starter kit use some sort of neutral interlock? Suppose your NV4500 is left in gear? If the transmission is left in gear even with the parking brake engaged, I believe the torque of the 4BT (especially at 1300 RPM) will overcome the parking brake.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I believe they have a feature that makes sure the engine is left running until the doors are locked, ensuring that its left in neutral...or something like that. I thought about putting in my own safety feature. We are in the habit of using the parking brake when our manual trans vehicles are left in neutral, so I could wire up the starter to only work when the parking brake is on (sensing the brake pedal light). I have also thought about ways to hook up some sort of neutral safety switch on the NV4500. I haven't really looked at the trans, but I have thought about hooking up a couple proximity switches to sense if the shift lever is left either forward or rearward of neutral. The problem is that the switches would be pushed every time a gear is changed, which would probably wear them quickly.

If anyone has any ideas about this, I'd love to hear them. I would really like to use some sort of neutral safety feature.

Jim
 

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NAPA sells a prox switch that has been used in the lift truck industry for years to activate the back up alarm. These swithches withstand continuos use and last for years, are somewhat inexpensive and readily avail. I will get a part number. There would be several different ways to mount it and to wire it. I too have thought of the remote start for the 4BT.
 

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I believe they have a feature that makes sure the engine is left running until the doors are locked, ensuring that its left in neutral...or something like that.
This should help.

I thought about putting in my own safety feature. We are in the habit of using the parking brake when our manual trans vehicles are left in neutral, so I could wire up the starter to only work when the parking brake is on (sensing the brake pedal light).
Using the park brake switch as an interlock in conjunction with the engine left running / door lock feature may be adequate. While I always leave our manual tranny vehicles in neutral with the parking brake engaged, my wife always leaves them in reverse with the parking brake lightly engaged. Most parking brake indicator lights are designed to come on when the brake lever/pedal is only 1 or 2 clicks from fully disengaged. In this position, the park brake usually isn't applying enough pressure to stop the vehicle from rolling on a steep incline, not to mention a vehicle that is being started in gear. It may be necessary to mount a second switch to sense when the park brake is fully engaged.


Mike
 

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Is there no neutral safety switch on the NV4500?

For my project with a Roadranger it has both a neutral safety switch and a backup light switch. I'll use the reverse light switch for just that.
The neutral safety switch will be part of the cruse control system, so it disengages when in neutral. Because the Roadranger is most often shifted without the clutch the neutral switch is important, and I will also have the clutch and brake switch in the system.

I have seen the finger switches that are used for backup lights when the transmission does not have one, great for that. But It would take several to tell when in neutral, probably not a good plan.

How about some sort of circuit that uses the electronic speedometer signal to kill the engine. Then if it was in gear, you start it, as soon as it begins to move the engine dies. I'm not sure how to make it work though?

Grigg
 

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One thing that might be considered is that most carb fast idle sol. will not push the throttle up until the throttle is tapped first. They will hold idle up but you will need to tap throttle to gety it up to speed.
Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thats just because of the linkage on the carb. The solenoid itself is just an electric solenoid that pushes out when energized, and is plenty strong to move the throttle of a Cummins. I know of quite a few guys who use them for fast idle when using on board air, welder, or PTO.

Jim
 

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Thats just because of the linkage on the carb. The solenoid itself is just an electric solenoid that pushes out when energized, and is plenty strong to move the throttle of a Cummins. I know of quite a few guys who use them for fast idle when using on board air, welder, or PTO.

Jim
My experience with the GM idle solenoid is as crobey4393 said. I have not tried one on the 4bt but when used with the carburetor you had to press the accelerator before the solenoid would hold the linkage open. The solenoid did not have enough power to open the linkage without help. It did great holding it open though.
 

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Don't get stuck on the solenoid thing. If the carb one does not work there are other options for that part.

How about a small air cylinder, and a solenoid valve?
Or simpler, there are solenoids strong enough to pull the fuel shutoff on a Detroit diesel, it's about the size of a "D" cell battery, but cost over $50 I believe.
Or a door latch solenoid may work?

Grigg
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The popular ones are from Motorcraft carbs. There are 2 wire and 3 wire. The 2 wire ones are simply "apply power, solenoid extends" (one power, one ground wire). The 3 wire ones allow you to adjust the movement of the solenoid more precisely. One is a ground, one extends the solenoid (slowly), and the other retracts it. It can be wired through a 2 position momentary switch to set the idle as high as you want in small increments. That style is best for PTO or on board air usage.

Last night I bought several roller proximity switches off ebay to experiment with. I looked at the movement of the shifter, and I think that I can mount one to be activated only when the lever is in the neutral position.

Jim
 

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Or a door latch solenoid may work?
Yes, or an add-on (aftermarket) power door lock solenoid

Not sure if they can handle continous duty, though
 

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i installed remote starts at circuit city for 2 years.my friend and co worker that worked there lent his car to a girl to take during her lunch hour.when he got off he came out to the parking lot to see his car repeatidly ramming thr car in front of his.yea,she forgot to put it in nuetral.we were not allowed to put remote starts on manuals for this exact reason.also the car will crank several seconds,stop and repeat several times.i imagine a 4bt would just start in gear and push a car out of the way just idling.
 

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One question for you guys. What does the 4bt have for a tach sensor? This is necessary for the auto starter. The 89-91 6bt's didn't have an electronic tach sensor. The 91 had 2 notches in the harmonic balancer that a magnetic sensor was bolted on 1mm away from and sensed rotation speed much like a speedometer sensor works. For 89-90, you had to buy the notched sensor before the tach would work. Non of these worked with a remote starter. In 92, they changed the electrical somewhat, moved the voltage regulater inside the alternater from the firewall and some other stuff as well. Big change was the tach wires now numbered 3 instead of 2. It's that 3rd wire that you needed to hook the comand start into to let it know the engine had started and shut off the starter.
I tried a dodge aftermarket tach. It only had 2 wires, didn't work.
I tried using a vacuum switch that shut the starter off when the pump started making vacuum. The switch worked well but the pump didn't make vacuum until the oil pressure climbed up. That was a 3-5 second delay from when the engine started that the starter was freewheeling.
Another unit I tried used a voltage sensor. When the engine started and the alternater started charging, the starter was disengaged. Worked great until the fall when the grid heater started working. Every time the heater cycled, the voltage dropped and the unit thought the engine had stalled. It would then shut off the ingition and restart the truck.
After $1500.00 and a summer of trying to make one work, I gave up.
My point is (sorry for the long winded post) if the 4bt's don't have an electronic tach sensor, there could be problems trying to hook up a remote start and getting the starter to shut off after the engine has started.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Remote starters are used with diesels all the time, and they work great with voltage sensing. If you had problems, most likely you had a low output alternator that couldn't keep up with the grid heater, and/or poor batterie(s) that couldn't handle it. I won't have that problem though, since my grid heater won't be used once the Durango is running. I looked at the instructions with my starter, and I can choose to have the "glow plug" (in this case, grid heater) circuit timed, up to 30 seconds. Thats all I'm going to use- 30 seconds with the grid heater on, then it cranks.

Most remote starters also have an option to not use tach sensing OR voltage, but just use a timed start instead. My remote has the option to crank the starter for a preset time, such as 1, 2, 3, or 5 seconds. With the way my 4bt starts, I would never need more than 2 or 3 seconds. I don't think I would need that though, just the voltage sensor.

Jim
 

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If you can set the unit to only crank for a set number of seconds, that's the way to go. Any engine with an electric tach sensor, gas or diesel, has no problem with what I was talking about. As for my voltage drop, my battery was new, 1100 cranking amps, and my alternater was working fine, I had it checked by Dodge. They told me the grid heater pulled the whole system down to about 9.5 volts when it was on. It not only cycled before starting, but cycled on and off after the engine was running to help with a smoother run and less smoke from a cold engine. This was normal for the Cummins of the time. From what I can gather from this site, the 4bt hasn't evolved like the 6bt and it very well might not have an electronic tach sensor. I had no problems setting the delay time before starting, it was just getting the system to know the engine was running and shut the starter off. I havn't looked at any of the newer remote starters for a long time, I was just posting some info to try and save others from the same headaches I had. I hope it works for you.

Ian
 

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From what I can gather from this site, the 4bt hasn't evolved like the 6bt and it very well might not have an electronic tach sensor.
They don't...because they were never installed in a production vehicle, only later as a retro-fit.
 

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From what I can gather from this site, the 4bt hasn't evolved like the 6bt and it very well might not have an electronic tach sensor.
They don't...because they were never installed in a production vehicle, only later as a retro-fit.
Cummins continued developing the 4 cylinder variant of the B series along with the 5.9, all the way to ISB. When the 5.9s got P7100 pumps, so did the 3.9s. When the 5.9 went electronic, so did the 3.9. (Though I believe the ISB 3.9 was a rear-geartrain engine, as most of the ISBs were, while the Dodge variant retained the front geartrain.)

ISB series 3.9s were factory options for Freightliner MT35 (and possibly MT45) chassis, which was commonly used for more modern step vans. Nice engines, but they are PRICEY, and not as available as the 4BT, which is why you don't see them used in swaps as commonly as the 4BT. I saw a Freightliner chassis on flEaBay a while back, had a 170HP rated ISB 3.9 mated to an Allison 1000 trans. If you had an ISB version, you'd have a tach output to use right from the computer.

As to getting a tach output that is going to work with the remote starter, I'd say you could do it with one of the units from Dakota Digital:

One that has a flywheel sensor and adapter module:

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index....tegory_id=287/home_id=59/mode=prod/prd129.htm

One that conditions the W terminal output of an alternator that has one to use with a standard tach:

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index....tegory_id=105/home_id=59/mode=prod/prd128.htm

There have also been several other methods discussed on the site for adding a tach output to the engine.
 
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