[mooktank]

I've seen a ton of info about running a gasoline engine on brown's gas (hydrogen and oxygen) but none about running a diesel engine.

I've read somewhere that hydrogen doesn't like to spontaneously combust sometimes and is kindof erratic.

I think it would be nice for a turbo diesel to run on this gas since you could stuff a lot of extra air into the cylinder to create more power. The turbine would essentially become a steam turbine.

Anyone care to input on the subject?

 

[tndonor]

PV=nRT Finally got to remember this for something. Before I open my mouth and insert feet....Ill think on the matter. I know hydrogen burns at very high temps. Granted adding oxygen would have a net reduction in effeciency and lower temps....it hotter that DIesel cumbustion (Ill save the chemistry unless asked otherwise).

I think the problem would be compressing the gasses (unlike a NA engine), thus raising the temperatures and since one of the gasses is the oxidizer......controlling when and where the ignition occures would be difficult if possible. The turbo would turn into a jet engine, then have to be directed into cylinders uncumbusted. Getting the above through valves would be another hurdle. Lastly and the big nail as I see it now.....overheating.

As for as it not combusting readily........Hindenberg. Hydrogen is VERY flammable. It burns with a blue flame that is almost invisible in daylight.

Ill dig into the Chemistry books and give it a thought again.

 

[Dougal]

Where are you going to get a source of hydrogen plentiful enough to power a vehicle.
Even if you find a source, how are you going to contain it in a way that's safe and portable?

 

[mooktank]

Do some research on the Stan Meyer fuel cell. It makes hydrogen fuel on demand with about .5A. It doesn't obey the first law of thermo in a traditional sense but many assume it is taking energy from a dimension we can't see; similar to permanent magnet generators.

All this stuff makes diesel seem reaaaaaaal inefficient.

There are welders and torches coming out now that run on browns gas. Search it up on youtube there is some amazing info out there. Of course the government isn't gonna help but that's what we gotta do to get some energy.

I have some plans somewhere to build the reactor and I think they compress the gas to 60psi before ignition. This seems like it would be pretty good to run through a turbo to increase efficiency.

Another thing to note is the gas coming from the reactor is stochiometric. There is no additional air required to run a spark ignition engine. This is why I think it would be interesting to try to heat more air in a diesel and get even more power from it.

It's a crazy science but I think I'll be done with mine [on a gas engine] before next year if I don't get killed or something...

the 4BT is next.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

I have a friend locally who converts diesels (and gas engines) to run on hydrogen gas... http://www.h2go.info/

He has done one in a H1 diesel called the "Green Hummer" - is pretty well known for it... http://www.google.com/search?q=tai+...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Hope it helps,
Cheers, Andre

 

[tndonor]

Cool links.... I liek what I see thus far. Im not engineer and I am glad to see that a diesel has been converted to Hydrogen. All I know about the stuff comes from chemistry which is not geared for fuel retrofitting.

Keep the info comming

 

[mooktank]

http://www.netmar.com/~maat/archive/feb2/lindemnn.htm

This artice is a great free energy article and the site it's on has a bunch of stuff about hydrogen generators that can make more energy than they input. Very interesting indeed.

 

[Dougal]

http://www.netmar.com/~maat/archive/feb2/lindemnn.htm

This artice is a great free energy article and the site it's on has a bunch of stuff about hydrogen generators that can make more energy than they input. Very interesting indeed.

I hate to break it to you, but there is no such thing as "free energy" and never will be.

The info on that site is bogus. For example the "device" built by Robert Adams in New Zealand never ran, let alone produced any energy.
No such device has ever been observed working by reliable witnesses, ever, anywhere in the world.

The only device on that page that works is the refrigeration cycle. But it's not creating heat, simply pumping it from one place to another (like inside your fridge to the coils on the back of the fridge).

Hydrogen is already in use as a fuel, but because it's so light, it takes a huge amount of space to get any meaningful amount of energy into your fuel tank.
The other problem with hydrogen is generating it. Splitting it from water takes over double the energy you get from burning it.

 

[Dougal]

Wikipedia had this to say about Stan Meyer"

"Meyer's claims about the Water Fuel Cell and the car that it powered were found to be fraudulent by a Ohio court in 1996."

 

[mooktank]

Well that could be all politics just as much as someone saying it does work. Fact of the matter is the federal government wouldn't exist if there was a free energy machine.

I'm optimistic about the fact that there is energy out there we can't observe but can tap into.

www.steorn.com - these guys have seemed to also have tapped in to the "ether".

If there isn't free energy for us to use I'd say we're doomed.

At one point we were sure the world was flat.

Right now we're sure over unity is impossible. Think about it...

 

[gold79TA]

Sorry, back to school for mooktank and tndonor, any system that dissociates water then recombines it to produce more energy than is put in violates the fundamental law of thermodynamics. Entropy always increases. Dougal gets a B+ for noting this.

This process could be practical if you had a source of waste energy or cheap power (such as nuclear) to generate the hydrogen. Then the question is how do you store enough H2 to have practical range in a vehicle. There is plenty of research on hydrogen powered SI cars and fuel cells, however I suggest use of a library rather than the internet to filter out the bad science and kooks.

 

[tndonor]

Never posted you get more energy out than put in......back to the opthamologist for gold79ta I did like the links......never posted on which ones or the credibility of the net positive energy links. I referenced the green hummer only which has been done by seeing a real world diesel conversion.

Unless my caluclations of hydrogen burning hotter in exact proportions to oxygen (since you must have an oxidizer and no injection system can deliver that precse ratio) than hydrogen with excess oxygen, then I stand corrected and Ill dig out the book again.

I am quite aware of the laws of thermodynamics....dont get something from nothing......time and order and inversely proportionate, etc. I was more interested in Boyle's and ideal gas laws.

I just know that as you compress a gas, its temperature increases. Since a turbine increases pressure, you raise them temp. The timing of detonation is what I forsaw being tricky getting the heated gas through the intake valve and compressed again without predetonation. Apparently it has been done. Would love to read some of the hurdles that had to be overcome by the green hummer.

 

[Dougal]

Well that could be all politics just as much as someone saying it does work. Fact of the matter is the federal government wouldn't exist if there was a free energy machine.

I'm optimistic about the fact that there is energy out there we can't observe but can tap into.

www.steorn.com - these guys have seemed to also have tapped in to the "ether".

If there isn't free energy for us to use I'd say we're doomed.

At one point we were sure the world was flat.

Right now we're sure over unity is impossible. Think about it...

You will notice one thing in common with all the "free energy" proponents.
They're all trying to get your money.

Yes we are all doomed, when the sun gives out this planet will cool and die. But I don't think I'll live that long.
What is a concern in our lifetime is the rate at which we're burning fossil fuels (historically stored energy). There is going to be a rapid and painful adjustment when the easy to extract fossil fuels run out.

Really I have spent some time thinking about energy. My engineering degree took me through maths, chemistry and physics at a university level. I took many papers devoted to energy and thermodynamics.

Here're the three rules of thermodynamics which have yet to be broken.

1. You can't win, you can only break even.
2. You can only break even at absolute zero (-273.15 deg C).
3. You can't get to absolute zero.

The closest we have ever got to "breaking even" is a superconductor, unfortunately they only work well close to absolute zero.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

The closest I have seen to free energy is a small little sterling engine. Relies on the planet's electromagnetic properties to turn a small wheel. Sort of like a gyroscope or the balls that bounce back and forth forever.. But I don't think anyone's been able to make it work on a functional scale...

 

[Dougal]

The closest I have seen to free energy is a small little sterling engine. Relies on the planet's electromagnetic properties to turn a small wheel. Sort of like a gyroscope or the balls that bounce back and forth forever.. But I don't think anyone's been able to make it work on a functional scale...

Stirling engines run on a temperature difference.
Whispertech is a NZ company which is making CHP (combined heat & power) units using stirling engines running on gas or liquid fuel.
Target market is currently yachts.

Their efficiency isn't fantastic (can't beat a good diesel) but the ability to run on any heat source is a major bonus.

 

[mooktank]

Sorry, back to school for mooktank and tndonor, any system that dissociates water then recombines it to produce more energy than is put in violates the fundamental law of thermodynamics. Entropy always increases. Dougal gets a B+ for noting this.

I just took thermo 2 last semester and beleive me I understand thermodynamics thoroughly thank you very much.

I don't see why you guys find it so proposterous that a "law" can be found wrong.

It's not a universal truth. It's only based on experimentation.

And on the topic of Steorn; maybe they're looking for money but not right now. They claim to be pretty innocent and are even going to release the technology freely to everyone supposedly.

 

[gold79TA]

Sorry if I'm pessamistic, but Sadi Carnot was a pretty smart guy and no-one has proven him wrong in a couple hundred years. All this before there were big oil companies and much of a US government to influence anything.
Certainly an interesting topic. The internet has revitalized some of the "technology" that used to be relegated to the back pages of Popular Mechanix in the '70's. They didn't work then, and likely do not work today.
I think the highest efficiency of PRACTICAL engines is still a constant pressure (diesel) as the configuration commonly used for this cycle permits higher peak temperatures than rankine (gas turbine) cycle engines.
Unfortunately, further efficiency increases thru better materials run into oxide of nitrogen emissions issues.
Hydrogen would not appear to work well in a diesel application because of its 130 octane rating. This would, however, make it a great fuel for a high compression SI (otto cycle) engine. I believe this is what some of the automakers have in the labs.

 

[mooktank]

A Rankine cycle is a vapor cycle not a gas turbine FYI. A gas turbine is a Brayton cycle.

Anyways, back on topic:

I found this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBrxudm3Pg8

 

[Dougal]

I just took thermo 2 last semester and beleive me I understand thermodynamics thoroughly thank you very much.

I don't see why you guys find it so proposterous that a "law" can be found wrong.

It's not a universal truth. It's only based on experimentation.

And on the topic of Steorn; maybe they're looking for money but not right now. They claim to be pretty innocent and are even going to release the technology freely to everyone supposedly.

The thermodynamic laws have never been broken. Every claim that they have has proved to be bogus. Usually fraudulent (involving "investors" money).

The Hy-drive video is a promotional piece put together to entice investors. Remember they're "on the verge" and working on "licensing". Yes, they're after your money too.

Here's a link to a guy who bought and tested such a system.
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=163254&page=7
Completely unsurprising, it didn't work as claimed.

There is nothing "innocent" about Steorn, the "contract" and admission fee they're trying to place on the experts to verify their process is designed to keep them out.