Cummins 4BT & Diesel Conversions Forums banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,347 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Last week, I bought a M5R2 from a 1997 Ford F-150, 4.6 L V-6. I intend to stick it in the 1986 Grumman van (aka Twinkie Truck). After reading lots of internet threads and talking to my favorite transmission rebuilder, I chose the M5R2 for the following reasons:

1. 58 MPH max speed, I wanted an overdrive
2. My truck has a Ford adapter, less parts to buy
3. M5R2 is cheaper
4. ZF is more expensive to build, parts are harder to find
5. M5R2 is cheaper ;)

Picture 1 - From the front, note that it has 2 starter bolts. There is a newer M5R2 that has 3 starter bolts, it does not bolt up to the common Ford adapter. Do not forget to get the slip yoke.

Picture 2 - From the passenger side.

Picture 3 - From the driver side. Note that the shift lever is approximately 1 foot, 4 inches back.

Picture 4 - From the back end. Note that the slip yoke is pushed in against the seal. The overall length is approximately 2 foot, 8 inches.

Picture 5 - From the transmission mount. The bolt is approximately 1 foot, 2 inches back. You might want to do your own measurements before you cut and weld. :eek:
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,347 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Comments from my tranny builder

1. The M5R2 is cheaper than the ZF transmission to rebuild. Also the M5R2 parts are easier to obtain.

2. ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid) is too light for the temperatures in the desert. He recommends straight 50 weight motor oil.

3. The rubber plugs in the shift tower (see picture) dry out and leak. They should be replaced.

I will post pictures when I get to this step. First, I need to wash the crud off of the transmission before I open it.

Russ
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
I was planning on using a 4wd M5, but with the adapter inbetween the tranny and tcase, it would make it too long for my application.

Does anybody know if that adapter can be removed the end of the tranny to make for a longer d-shaft?
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
3,907 Posts
Mr Russ, your rebuilder says the ATF is too light, does he include the synthetics?

How about the various synthetic 'manual transmission fluids' that are for ATF specific manuals (thinking of the Royal Purple stuff at the moment, 'Synchromax' IIRC).

Does the M5 have brass or fiber synchros?

Not trying to be a pest, or call BS, just would like to know.

Thanks.:)

Bitchin pics BTW.:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
256 Posts
M5R2 has brass synchro blocker rings

With the exception of the ones that came in Thunderbirds.

Also I think you meant to write 1997 since it was behind a V6
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,347 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
>> Mr Russ, your rebuilder says the ATF is too light, does he include the synthetics?

Did not ask about synthetic ATF.

I am going to use ATF to flush the transmission before installing - Looks like it sat on the shelf of the junkyard for a long time.

Napa and the chain stores did not have straight 50 weight. Found a local independent had it in stock. Said he sells a lot for Harley transmissions.

>> Also I think you meant to write 1997 since it was behind a V6

Thanks, good catch - I edited the original post.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,347 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
The M5R2 comes with different bellhousing patterns

I took this picture at my local tranny shop. These are automatic transmissions, but, it shows the two different belhousings. The available Cummins 4BT / 6BT adapter to Ford bellhousing uses the 2 bolt starter as shown on the transmission on the right.

The transmission on the left has 3 attaching bolts. This is newer and is for the Triton (edit - Modular) motors.

Do your research carefully before putting your dollars on the counter....
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,347 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Got a Sealed Power number for the shift rail plugs

Went to NAPA this morning with the Dorman #. No cross reference.

"Got any 5/8 expansion plugs?"

They carry Sealed Power # 381-2167.

Bought 3 and got change back from $3.00 :)

Perfect fit.

Got a couple of hints on working with the shift tower:

1. Put it in neutral before removing the shift tower.

2. Push the gasket into the shift tower base before installing the shift tower.

3. Confirm the gasket is in place (no gaps between the shift tower & transmission) before inserting the bolts.

p.s. I am using a socket to drive the expansion plug in the hole.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,347 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Update: Went back to ATF

The transmission, with 50 weight engine oil, shifted stiffly. I went back to ATF about 2 years ago. Much better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
I've always used a 30 weight motor oil with a high zinc content or Amsoil MTL. The zinc is an anti shear agent and is very important. They went to ATF in these transmissions after manufactures started removing the zinc due to emissions, this is also good for any engine that does not have a roller cam. I have an M5R2 in a 5500 pound Bronco on 37 tires and I don't have any issues with it. Fix the leak issue and keep it full of fluid and it's a very tough transmission.

You could also use "break in" oil mixed with regular 30wt engine oil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
I just have a question. I'm about ready to replace my M5R2 and was wondering if it has a front seal? So far, what I've found out is that it has an oil slinger. Is there more of a seal in the front end? thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,163 Posts
It has a lip seal that seals on the input shaft and inside it has a part very much like a lip seal that registers on the input bearing shim and a plastic "impeller" that pumps oil to the needle bearings on the main shaft>I took some pics of it but I will need to find my cameras USB cord to upload them will do that tonight.
Steve.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,163 Posts
Ugene<here are the pics of seal and pump/slinger


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
860 Posts
i was asking my tranny guy about preferences betweeen the nv3500 vs m5r2 and he said they have similar load levels but he likes the m52r because the shafts run in tapered bearings which easily controls the front to back shaft movement and the nv3500 runs in plain rollers with shims....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,163 Posts
Even though I killed my M5od by towing WAY too heavy of a trailer in OD I still think it's a good transmission and would use one again in any half ton 4BT rig I built,you can't beat the gear spacing for the 4BT's power band.....just my two cents ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
825 Posts
Seems like my M5R2 is getting sloppy and harder to find reverse, it goes into gear then the shifter travels further. I did make sure that the bolt is tight. Been looking through the threads to see if anyone else had these issues. Thanks. Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,163 Posts
IIRC there is an adjustable stop for the reverse throw/engagement I have the M5 rebuild guide around here somewhere I will try to find it and see what it says, but I have 6 or 8 large boxes of books that have yet to be unpacked since our move so it may take a while for me to find it.
Mine shifted fine right up to the point it cratered and it lasted for nearly 20,000 miles after it started to make noise,the gear on the input shaft that drives the counter shaft and the driver gear on the counter shaft is what let loose on mine the rest of it still looks good even though it has lots of chunks of gear loose in it>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
825 Posts
Thanks Steve, thought I had read something of a adjustment on the tower. I was looking at some of the posted pictures for the adjustment. Just south of you visiting my sister right now, truck is back in Calif. so I can't fiddle with it.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top