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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all, long time lurker, first time poster here.
So live down under and managed to score a good condition 6BT from a stationary application, which has a Stanadyne DB4 stationary IP, shown below. I have heard of people converting these to run an automotive type governor setup, but none of my local pump shops had any experience of this and recommended me getting a VE pump. I even thought about removing the throttle position locking screws, to theoretically allow for a usable RPM range, but read they can fall apart internally if the throttle position is changed... Not sure if this is true or not?

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Anyway, long story short I ended up getting a VE pump shipped from the UK to here as there is next to no availability for any Cummins parts at all in Australia.

However, due to some commitments I am unable to work on it for the next few months, so I thought I would ask here a few questions I still have.

Would there any chance of the IP timing gear being transferable from the Stanadyne to the Bosche pump? I'm guessing they would have different taper angles or something.

And will I have to purchase new injector lines? Was thinking I could bend the lines slightly to get them to fit onto the Bosche IP, but once again im guessing they might have a different locking nut, or a different taper angle on the end of the line.

I wouldn't have a problem buying new parts like these, but sourcing and shipping is such a pain living down here.

And if anyone was wondering, I plan to put this donk into a 105 series Landcruiser, as apparently I am obsessed with buying busted ass old cruisers with no motors.
 

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Can you give me the serial number off your engine ID plate. I'll look to see what housing and gear it has. Pretty sure the housing is OK but won't guarantee on the gear. Injection lines probably need replacing and I'll check those part numbers and you might need to verify which injectors you have. See you are missing some of the plumbing from the lift pump. I should be able to find you part numbers for those too. Will the oil dip stick stay in that center location or will you use a different oil pan? That industrial style pan is rarely used in vehicle because of interference to the axle. Any other parts you need to know about? What turbo do you have? How far up the performance ladder do you plan to climb?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Can you give me the serial number off your engine ID plate. I'll look to see what housing and gear it has. Pretty sure the housing is OK but won't guarantee on the gear. Injection lines probably need replacing and I'll check those part numbers and you might need to verify which injectors you have. See you are missing some of the plumbing from the lift pump. I should be able to find you part numbers for those too. Will the oil dip stick stay in that center location or will you use a different oil pan? That industrial style pan is rarely used in vehicle because of interference to the axle. Any other parts you need to know about? What turbo do you have? How far up the performance ladder do you plan to climb?
Serial No. 21681208A
I tried doing a search before on the Cummins website with that number but nothing came up. I bought a set of standard injectors for a VE dodge Cummins, so hopefully they will be fine. Was thinking for the lift pump plumbing to just get some fittings from the local hydraulic shop. Vehicle already has a good fuel filter setup so can bypass the one on the intake manifold I think. Dipstick probably will be more of a nuisance than a problem, can change out later if its too annoying. Was thinking of getting the pan modified, still need to pull it off and see where the oil pick up is, as new/modified pan will be a rear sump. Came with a H1C turbo and a manifold which wont work. Was thinking an eBay special hx35 would be alright. Hopefully 300hp, so I don't instantly delete the driveline. Thanks for the help btw
 

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OK. Your engine comes up on my Cummins site just fine. There should be no A on the end. Engine was built in Darlington UK in 2006. You bought injectors for a Dodge VE pump engine. Are the injector tips 7mm or 9mm diameter? Unless it has been changed this engine has a head with 9mm holes. Replacement injectors now come in 7mm and you use a 2mm sleeve to fit them to the hole. If you need those sleeves and don't have them they are part 3919358. They are not expensive.
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Your pump drive gear on the Stanadyne pump is 4932713 or 3936021 (old number) and that the same for the VE injection pump. That's one in your favor. The fuel injection lines for the Stanadyne are different so you will need to replace those. This is the part that gets a bit sticky. '88-91 engines used a different injector than '91.5-93 engines. Don't know which style injector you have purchased. Need to measure the threads where the line attaches. I believe the early ones are 12mm and later were 14mm. I have the part numbers for both so let me know which type you need. The parts you are missing from the lift pump are not items you'll find at a auto parts store. They are specific to the engine. The first part you need is the line and fittings going from the lift pump to the cylinder head. Here are those part numbers.

1 3903035 Banjo Bolt
2 3911446 Banjo Bolt
3 3939570 Screw
4 3919518 Fuel Supply Line
5 3963983 Sealing Washer (4 req)

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If you plan on using a remote filter instead of the one on the head you will not need this setup. There is a fuel return line that goes to that T fitting near the back of the engine. I'll get back to you with that one. There will also be an air pressure line going from the manifold to the injection pump. You'll also have electric connection on the injection pump depending on which pump you have. Do you know the part number for the pump and have a photo of it?
 

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Cummins diaphragms can be a bit misguided, as you do not use #4 if your using #3 for the injectors.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Cool, was wondering what site are you using? I was trying to use that cummins "QuickServe" one but cannot get any info from it. Good news about the gear then!

About the head, I checked the injector tip hole size with the back end of a drill bit. 7mm fit nice but 7.5mm wouldn't fit, so it has a 7mm head.

Injectors are 0432131837 3919350. They have the M12 thread and 7mm tips.

Cheers for the banjo part numbers. Think I got the return sorted, new copper seals ect for the return from the injectors.


Pump No. 0 460 426 450

Hopefully its a 12v shut off solenoid, guess I can just replace with a 12v one if it happens to be 24v. Yeah Ill need to sort the boost reference line too.
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OK. A bit more into for you. You say the head has 7mm holes. According to Quick Serve it has 9mm holes. Unless the head has been changed, it might be that those sleeves are stuck in the holes. The injectors you have should be great. That is a part number commonly used as an upgrade. Now, as for the injector lines. I checked with Nascarmark and he says you can reuse the old lines. May need a bit of adjusting where they fit the pump. So that can save you a bit of money. As for new lines if you had to get them, they came in different lengths. The early 6bt VE had longer delivery valves in the pump so it's lines are a tad shorter. The 91.5-93 lines are longer due to shorter delivery valves. Now for the injection pump connections. Your pump is likely an industrial model. It does not have the KSB device that advances the timing for cold start ups. That was more of a smog control item than an necessity. This saves you a good bit of money because that switch and wiring harness are expensive plus you'd need a different intake plate. It does have a mechanical shut down lever so it you wanted to eliminate the electric solenoid you can do so. There is a little dab of yellow paint on that lever which leads me to think it may have come from a piece of Case equipment, but who knows. You will need 2 items that you likely don't have. First is the air fuel control plumbing that connects the pump to the intake manifold. Those parts are as follows.

1 3282437 Air Fuel Control Tube
2 3905391 Grommet Seal
3 3918188 Sealing Washer (2 req)
4 3910265 Male Elbow
5 3924724 Banjo Bolt (you may have this in the pump)

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The next item you need is the fuel return line that goes from the pump to that T fitting. Here are the parts for that. The diagram below shows that part but doesn't show the banjo bolt connecting it to the pump. You may have that bolt in the pump but if not I'm taking a guess it is part 3903035 and would need washer parts 3963990 and 3963988. Mind you this is a guess and not written in stone.

1 3928759 Grommet Seal
2 3900629 M8x1.25x16 Flange Head Bolt
26 3925860 Fuel Drain Tube

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Your injection pump appears to have been around for a while. Might want to do some basic upgrades such as new seals. You'll want an new governor spring. 3200 RPM is the most recommended one. Bosch part 1464650366. If you have a shop do the work it usually isn't cheap. In going through the pump they may find other parts needing replacing. Typical rebuild on a pump can in be in the $1000 area even here in the USA. In combination with that you may consider installing HD valve springs. This is not an absolute necessity but you wouldn't want to float a valve. I believe you only have to replace the exhaust springs but most replace them all. This is one of those better safe than sorry items. A new set of gaskets, seals, and bearings would be good advice. This would also require new rod and head bolts. Using studs instead of bolts on the head is good advice and not horribly expensive. Main bolts in the lower end don't get replaced. You want to do the Killer Dowel Pin (KDP) repair. You mentioned modifying the oil pan to fit. I'd probably suggest you find a replacement pan with the regular sump. Pans for those engines are reversible so whether you want the sump at the front or rear uses the same pan but different pickup and dip stick placement. There are at least 3 different pans that were used. Pan 3915703 holds 15 quarts and was typically on industrial engines. Not used too often on road vehicles because of the larger sump but was found in HD trucks. Pan 3914403 was used on the '89-93 road engines and is the type you'd want. Pan 3925772 was used on '94-02 engines and would also fit your application and would be best because all its parts are available. Oil pan pickup for 3914403 is no longer available so here is the parts list for 3925772 with a rear pickup. This pan was used in the Dodge trucks for 9 years here in the USA but that doesn't help where you are.

1 3925883 M8x1.25x16 Flange Head Bolt (4 req)
2 3959052 Oil Pan Gasket (discontinued) use an aftermarket one
3 3926910 Oil Pan Plug
4 3938157 Flange Gasket
5 3928455 Oil Pickup Tube
6 3925772 Oil Pan
7 3920400 M8x1.25x21 Flange Head Bolt (36 req)
8 3923096 Sealing Washer

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If there are any other part numbers I can help with just let me know. Of course you'll need to work out the electric hook up for the pump solenoid. Needs to be a constant 12V source when the ignition is on. Should you decide to go for a manual control, you remove the solenoid, take out the control plunger, then reinstall the shell back in the hole. Then you attach a push/pull cable to the little arm with the yellow paint on it. One less electrical thing to go wrong when you're out in the boonies. Many diesel farm tractors operate this way so even in Australia you could come up with a cable for that from some farm supply.
 

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I'll add you will need a block to VE pump bracket if you don't already have one. Damage will occur if you don't support back of injection pump.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Wow thank you both for all the info! Glad injector lines are ok to re-use. Pretty sure there are no sleeves stuck, but will get make sure I'm 100% sure before I start installing injectors.
Appreciate all the part numbers again, will be a huge help.
I feel this response is inadequate for the time you spent replying, but I think that's everything for now until I get some free time and stuck into working on it. Will post some update pics when I get some work done to it.
 

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Yes Mark, I forgot the injection pump support brace. Very important item. I found 2 different style braces and I'll show you both. Maybe on was for automatic transmission to support a sensor. Don't really know.

1 3905313 Fuel Pump Brace
4 3900630 M8x1.25x20 Flange Head Bolt (3 req)

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Alternate bracket 3918949 is part #6 in this diagram. Used the same bolts as the other one.

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Can't say I've ever seen brace #6....might be for an industrial application to support a compressor ? Definitely not for an automatic sensor as they are mounted directly to the top of injection pumps throttle.
 
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Mark, I haven't figured it out either. 2 of the 3 engines I checked had that 1st style. One was built in '89 and the other in '93. Both were 160 HP. The odd one was a CPL 1551 built in '92. It definitely came from a Dodge truck because it has that odd fan hub and the Dodge flywheel housing. Saw no extra accessories that might have required that odd pump support brace. It had the same injection pump as the one built in '93. I found some photos of an engine with that bracket on it. You note there are 3 holes in the vertical part. 2 had bolts going into the block and the bottom one had the support brace for the PS/Vacuum pump. Didn't see anything attached to the top hole but in the article it mentions that top hole was for an alternate throttle control bracket.
 

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Chopped if you send me a PM with an email address I can send you a lot of info on your engine. I and a few other Oka owners here in Oz have been running the same engine in our Oka's for over five years now.
I actually wrote a document with all the needed parts and changes required to run the engines as vehicle engines. They are all from gensets on trains so full industrial engines when purchased. They are relatively new engines as they all run STORM (Straight O ring metric) blocks but are only 5.9 litre capacity.
You will need the VE pump, most of us imported reconditioned VE pumps from the US built to suit the engine with approximately 250hp, The existing injectors will work fine for vehicle use, I've never changed mine. The lines will need changing to suit the VE pump, the cam is the same as vehicle engine, you need to fit 60lb valve springs especially if comtemplating an exhaust brake.
As I said I've heaps of info along with parts sources already written out, with quite a bit learnt from Char and others on this forum.
Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
just a quick update.
Re-sealed that VE pump, found slight wear in the housing from the timing advance, but the piston and head looked perfect so just decided put it back together and see how it went.
Installed the pump and then spent a few annoying hours wrestling the injector lines to line up without touching each other, which turned out ok. Timing gear fit perfectly on the new pump.
Bled the lines, and once tightened, it fired straight up! Damn I was stoked with that! Runs great with zero smoke :))
Found out the lift pumps dead so might order one of those from high flow low pressure ones from mark if you guys think that is the way to go.
thanks for yall help again, appreciate it
 

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... spent a few annoying hours wrestling the injector lines to line up without touching each other, which turned out ok. ...
Make sure that the injection line clamps are reinstalled - otherwise, the engine vibration will eventually crack a line
 
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X2 on the hvlp lift pump
 
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