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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
The GM SM-465 and the Borg Warner T-19 setup engine adapters both use the same starter and starter spacer. This spacer is 16 mm thick and provides the correct depth for the starter pinion and the ring gear on the flywheel to mesh properly. This same spacer is also used with the GM TH-400/475 transmission.

This spacer is Cummins part number 3906647.
 

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I want4ed to start a new thread so as not to threadjack the otehr thread.

(2) of my 4BTA's, were direct take outs from Bread Vans and came with GM Adapters, Flywheels, Starters and SM-465 Transmissions.

(4) of my 4BTA's were direct take outs from Bread Vans and came with Ford Adapters, flywheels, starters. I did not buy the attached transmissions.

The bottom line is none of the above direct take outs had any type of a starter spacer. And all starters work fine. What was the determination on when a spacer was needed ? As it seems very strange so many direct take outs did nto use the spacer.

I am confused

Paul
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
There are more than one adapter per version due to revisions.
Here are two pictures of the same Chevy adapter but with different revisions. The ones that take the spacer are the same thickness all the way down to the starter mounting surface and the spacer shims the starter away from the flywheel. The other version actually has the spacer cast into the adapter and therefore is not required. I imagine the versions that came with the Ford bellhousing are the same since they both use the same starter.
 

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There are more than one adapter per version due to revisions.
Here are two pictures of the same Chevy adapter but with different revisions. The ones that take the spacer are the same thickness all the way down to the starter mounting surface and the spacer shims the starter away from the flywheel. The other version actually has the spacer cast into the adapter and therefore is not required. I imagine the versions that came with the Ford bellhousing are the same since they both use the same starter.
Thanks Bob, I did not realize there were different revisions on that GM adapter. Makes Sense now.

Paul
 

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There are more than one adapter per version due to revisions.
Here are two pictures of the same Chevy adapter but with different revisions. The ones that take the spacer are the same thickness all the way down to the starter mounting surface and the spacer shims the starter away from the flywheel. The other version actually has the spacer cast into the adapter and therefore is not required. I imagine the versions that came with the Ford bellhousing are the same since they both use the same starter.


Bringing this back for more reference. I have two Chevy adapters, both 2" thick like the pic on the right in Bob's post.

I have a starter with these part numbers- 128000-0545, 3957594

I bolted on one of my adapters, the better of the two that I have. I then bolted on my flywheel, clutch ass'y and bellhousing.....then I tried the starter....with the 1/2" spacer, the snout of the starter does not clear the hole in the adapter. I then looked at the other adapter for reference, since the starter was used on that adapter with an automatic trans/flexplate. The previous owner of the engine installed an addition 1/4" spacer(obviously homemade) and the hole in the adapter is larger and offset toward the outer edge of the adapter. So...I took the homemade 1/2"+1/4" spacer and bolted it up to my good adapter that is installed on my engine. The starter bolts on w/o problems, but the teeth of the bendix gear only mesh with half of the ring gear. I do not know how it meshed with the flexplate for the previous owner.

I will get some pics posted up later. This is just one more wall that I have hit head on with this project.
 

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Per Cummins these are the Gm adapter that have starter contact with the housing.These adapter are all pre 87 .
3912624
3910516
3908528

Adapter 396101 is the newest and has no contact problems.

Starter that has problems with above adapters is Nip 12800-0541 and Cum 3904466.

Scott
 

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I am running into some of this with the Dodge 6BT 4500 and NV5600 adapters and different variations. I bought a NV5600 and starter from a truck that did not use a spacer. The NV5600 adapter I bought requires one. Cummins price is $50 as well. I believe ford-cummins sells a steel one for $20...
 

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Per Cummins these are the Gm adapter that have starter contact with the housing.These adapter are all pre 87 .
3912624
3910516
3908528

Adapter 396101 is the newest and has no contact problems.

Starter that has problems with above adapters is Nip 12800-0541 and Cum 3904466.

Scott
Well, crabcakes. I bought a Nip to replace that Cummins number (3904466) does that mean that I'll have a problem?

Here's the webpage I got it from if anyone's interested:

http://www.db-starter-alternator.com/Items/16990


Pantherman
 

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starter

i have straters from both for and chevy bread trucks 1987 and 1988.the ford starter is a little bit larger.you can use it on the gm adapter but you have to grind the opening out a little bit for the ford starter to fit.i will take some pics of the starter nose pieces.thank you, jim
 

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Ok, bringing this back from the dead... I need some info on the starter spacer for my 4bt/ZF 5 speed project. I finally found the pilot bearing for my flywheel (6303 alternator bearing) and it is on order. Now im having trouble finding out a part number for the spacer I need. Im not sure exactly what starter I have, but it looks to be exactly the same as the one on my 6bt/th400 swap in the race truck, and I thought that they were all the same. I need a part number for the spacer, where to buy it from, or how thick it needs to be so I can machine one. Let me know if you need any more info... Im really want to get this thing going, and this is one of the last pieces that I need.. thanks guys.. :beer:

Aaron/HD Fab
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Ok, bringing this back from the dead... I need some info on the starter spacer for my 4bt/ZF 5 speed project. I finally found the pilot bearing for my flywheel (6303 alternator bearing) and it is on order. Now im having trouble finding out a part number for the spacer I need. Im not sure exactly what starter I have, but it looks to be exactly the same as the one on my 6bt/th400 swap in the race truck, and I thought that they were all the same. I need a part number for the spacer, where to buy it from, or how thick it needs to be so I can machine one. Let me know if you need any more info... Im really want to get this thing going, and this is one of the last pieces that I need.. thanks guys.. :beer:

Aaron/HD Fab
See post #1 in this thread. I tried to copy it over to here but it went out of sync due to the date.
 

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Have you ever looked so hard for something, and it was right under your nose.... :rasta: I knew I had seen it before, but I must have been skipping right over it.... Thanks a ton BobS :beer: :beer:
 

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Does anyone have a picture of the starter spacer? Cummins wants $86.64 plus a $15 dollar order fee for the spacer.. :eek: I was wondering if it is just a flat spacer, or if it is recessed press fit or something like that... BTW Cummins says the the new spacer number for the ford is 3934080 Thanks for any help guys... :beer:
 

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Does anyone have a picture of the starter spacer? Cummins wants $86.64 plus a $15 dollar order fee for the spacer.. :eek: I was wondering if it is just a flat spacer, or if it is recessed press fit or something like that... BTW Cummins says the the new spacer number for the ford is 3934080 Thanks for any help guys... :beer:
There's a place that charges only $25 for the spacer, here it is:

http://www.fordcummins.com/

You'll have to call and ask for it, I had to but they have it.

Panthemran

EDIT:
I'm sorry I thought that you were asking for another place to get it, give me a few hours to a day and I think I can dig up a pic of it.
 

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Does anyone have a picture of the starter spacer? Cummins wants $86.64 plus a $15 dollar order fee for the spacer.. :eek: I was wondering if it is just a flat spacer, or if it is recessed press fit or something like that... BTW Cummins says the the new spacer number for the ford is 3934080 Thanks for any help guys... :beer:
The spacer has a lip that sets inside the adapter plate . The $15.00 fee is because it's a none stock item and has to be ordered special .

Scott
 
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