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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was following links around and found one that metioned put bio-diesel in gas (up to 15% volume) as possibly making the engine run like new. Sadly, unless I made it, bio-diesel in my area is non-existant. But I was intrigued, so I bought 2 jugs of cheap Wal-Mart veggie oil (a little less than 1 gallon) and dropped it into the tank of my 4.0L V-6 Ford Explorer. There was already about 16.5 gallons gas in the tank, so I figured the gas/oil ratio was still in the safe range. I honestly didn't expect much, but my truck has been acting the dog lately. (probably because I want that doggoned 4BT torque).

Within about 3-4 miles, I felt the difference. It seemed to certainly have more pep, and even my wife noticed the difference. I've used plenty of fuel injector cleaners, etc. before to help the mileage, but NOTHING compared to the kick in the pants this did. Any thoughts?

I also read about work Jonathan Goodwin has been doing with hybrid Duramaxes in Hummers (which eventually led me to this forum). In an article by Fast Company, they said he strained some WVO from a restaurant through a pair of jeans (!) and put it straight in the tank. No word on anything about blending or 2 tanks. So I e-mailed http://www.hlineconversion.com/ and asked for clarification. They responded '1 MICRON WILL BE SUFFICIANT. PREFILTERING WAS THE DISCUSSION IN FAST CO.'

The only thing I can figure is something unique about the Duramax, or the fact that he injects pressurized natural gas into his intake though some sort of contraption he came up with. Thoughts?
 

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wow, that really makes me want to try that in my jeep as wait for the money for the 4bt. every freakin step van i see around town is driving me crazy.
how much of a difference did it really make? MPG? were there any negatives that you noticed, or did it go off without a hitch? It sounds to good to be true. Sounds like 5%-10% mix.
 

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I was following links around and found one that metioned put bio-diesel in gas (up to 15% volume) as possibly making the engine run like new. Sadly, unless I made it, bio-diesel in my area is non-existant. But I was intrigued, so I bought 2 jugs of cheap Wal-Mart veggie oil (a little less than 1 gallon) and dropped it into the tank of my 4.0L V-6 Ford Explorer.
Ok, I'm confused. You said Bio-Diesel, but put straight veggie oil in the tank, which was used? Straight veggie oil isn't Bio-Diesel, Bio-Diesel involves a steps to remove certain parts of the veggie oil and make it a little more fluid like Diesel/Gasoline. (BTW, I know that it does more than that, but I wanted to keep the explanation simple)

Pantherman
 

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Propane injection on a diesel isn't anything new - it appears to "increase" efficiency because you're burning less diesel, which is being substituted by propane. In lead to some increases in HP but, like nitrous, you can blow your engine up if you read up on metering the ratios.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I don't have bio diesel available in my area so I substituted fresh veggie oil instead. The fuel mileage stayed about the same, but the spunk of the motor increased enough to tell the difference. The way I see it, if SVO can clean the motor a bit while displacing a bit of gas and help lubricate the top of the cylinder walls, I can't see any bad side.

I made sure to add the SVO with a full tank, or right before I fueled up, and so there were no problems. However, it seems that a 5% concentration is not enough to give much of a power increase. But I did notice condensation coming out of the tail pipe like a new motor even with just 5%, like the article I found mentioned. I would like to find a source of grease, filter it down to 1 micron, and give the old girl 15% to see how she likes it.

I used to have an Isuzu I-mark that apparently had some problems. I ran some dino-diesel (about a 35% mix) through it, and after the smoke cleared :) that little car ran like a sewing machine for the next 1.5 year I had it. So it apparently does a bit of good. And common sense would dictate not adding 2 gallons of SVO on a low tank, but adding on a nearly full tank or seconds before a fill up (a transmission funnel works great for that) had no ill effect on the motor.

The theory on adding bio-diesel to gas is that it helps lubricate the upper cyl. walls and causes a cleaner burn, best as I can understand it. The article I read suggested 15% as the max for bio-diesel, but from what I've noticed, the gas motor doesn't care if you use SVO instead. Heck, the fool thing was having a hard time starting (had to crank for around 10-15 secs at times) and now it fires reliably within about 4 seconds. I'm sold on it, and intend to use either filtered or fresh SVO until I get my 4BT installed.

To summarize everyone's questions, I used fresh SVO from the bottle at about 8% and noticed a healthy increase in performance. At 5% I noticed negligible performance increase, but the motor "behaved" itself more. Maybe next week I will try 10% and report back the results.
 

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If you cruise the bio diesel forums much, you'll come across a warning that switching from regular dino diesel to bio diesel will likely loosen up a bunch of deposits and sludge in your fuel system requiring a frequent change of fuel filters for a while. If this is happening, then it's reasonable to assume that the natural oils have a detergent like quality that removes build up. I can see where adding straight veggie oil would help clean up injecters and such. Keep in mind that this isn't going to repair an old tired engine, it will just clean up the fuel delivery system for you. Use it sparingly. If a little is good, more won't be better.
 

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I would say mixing SVO with gasoline would cause the oil to undergo transesterification due to the ethanol in the gas. But when this happens it produces glycerol which is not good for fuel injectors I would guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I would think you would need lye in the gas as well before transesterificatioin would occur, assuming there is any ethanol in the gas out here. Gasohol is a long way from here.

But glycerol would be a concern nonetheless. Might not be a bad idea to put some gas and veggie oil together in a jar and see what happens.

The reason I want to try a 10% mix is because I noticed a distinct difference between 5% and approx. 8% and I want to see what happens. If the gas motor gas, oh darn honey, guess we need to go ahead and get a 4bt :). But I don't intend to let that happen. I think 10% may be as much as I want to put in it. I kinda hope I can either find someone making bio-diesel or a station that sells it so I can see what it does.

But assuming there is no glycerol formation, the lubrication properties are certainly well worth consideration for making a gas motor last longer.
 

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I would think you would need lye in the gas as well before transesterificatioin would occur, assuming there is any ethanol in the gas out here. Gasohol is a long way from here.

But glycerol would be a concern nonetheless. Might not be a bad idea to put some gas and veggie oil together in a jar and see what happens.

The reason I want to try a 10% mix is because I noticed a distinct difference between 5% and approx. 8% and I want to see what happens. If the gas motor gas, oh darn honey, guess we need to go ahead and get a 4bt :). But I don't intend to let that happen. I think 10% may be as much as I want to put in it. I kinda hope I can either find someone making bio-diesel or a station that sells it so I can see what it does.

But assuming there is no glycerol formation, the lubrication properties are certainly well worth consideration for making a gas motor last longer.
Not trying to start a war here, just my 2 cents.

#1 All gasoline (on average) contains at least 10% ethanol, haven't seen a pump in 300 miles from Ohio that didn't have that claim on it to begin with. However I have never tried making Bio diesel without lye, so I don't know if you'll get any "fallout".

#2 Considering that diesels are a compression ignition engine rather than a spark ignition engine, I'd be concerned what the unburnt portion of that fuel is doing. I know that biodiesel isn't veggie oil, but I know for a fact (cause I've tried it) that Biodiesel won't burn under the normal "toss a match on it and see if it burns" test, it needs to be under compression to even burn.

Pantherman
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
1) come to Arkansas. It's more than 300 miles from Ohio, and about 10 years behind.

2) the unburnt portion of the fuel is lubricating the cylinder walls, which is half the point. And considering that the temperature of the gas is likely to be quite high, the oil will burn. Besides, there might be what, 5 drops mixed in with all the gas in the combustion chamber?

I don't claim to understand all the science; it seems to do an ailing engine good though, and as veggie oil tends to be more benign than most other fuel treatments, can't see it hurting none.

And diesel will burn without compression, but it requires a much higher ignition temperature, more than a match will give.
 

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1)...the unburnt portion of the fuel is lubricating the cylinder walls...

...it seems to do an ailing engine good though...
Just postulating here... perhaps these two go hand in hand to result in an 'ailing' engine running better. Sealing up the gaps/scratches between worn out rings and cylinder walls is what most of the "fix-it-in-a-can" elixirs claim to do. Providing a little bit of a coating substance with each intake may be better or may be worse. I can imagine a scenario where it(or more likely partially burnt remnants) may accumulate in the ring lands and eventually accelerate wear or cause damage. I'd only experiment with this in a well used engine, like you're doing.

Ken
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
I really need to find that article I read about this in. They used Biodiesel in a Toyota camry, I think, with over 200K, and they needed it to pass emisions.

Here's the URL, you have to scroll past the part about 2 stroke engines to get to the part about the 4 stroke engines.
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#gas
I realize I am going off on a tangent using SVO instead of bio-diesel, but as I said, I have a hard time coming up with bio out here.

As far as the lubricating properties of the SVO, I am curious if there is someone with gray hair who remembers running leaded gasoline. I've been told the lead had lubricating properties that helped increase engine life. I've been told that the sulphur in diesel does the same thing. Going along that line, I see the SVO in the gas as filling in a gap that unleaded gasoline is lacking in in the basic design requirements of a 4 stroke gas engine. Elsewhere I found out about some very high priced fuel additive that claimed to lubricate the upper cylinder walls using alcohol esters, similar to what is found in biodiesel. I know Lucas Oil makes a similar additive.

In answer to johnretired, I wouldn't initially think a 10% mix of oil/fuel would foul the plugs. But on second thought, a 2 stroke motor would use 1/3 as much oil, a 3.3% mix, and the plugs don't normally foul on a good motor. So....I don't know. Guess I might pull a plug and take a look at it.

I will continue to keep ya'll updated.
 

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I have gray hair.
I have used a lot of leaded gasoline years ago!! The lead lubricated the vavle seats.
Sulphur is a polutant that the EPA wanted out of the fuel. The process to remove it also removes the lubricant in diesel fuel. Now, the lubricant has to be added back to the fuel.
If you want to add some upper cylinder lube to a gas motor, why not just add 4 oz of trans fluid or marvel mystery fluid?
A gallon of vegetable oil is a lot of additive.
I personally would just use a good injector cleaner .
 

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...I am curious if there is someone with gray hair who remembers running leaded gasoline. I've been told the lead had lubricating properties that helped increase engine life....
When I couldn't find leaded out the pump I added tetraethyl lead to the premium fuel I fed the 370 in my '55 Pontiac Chieftain. It was to help the exhaust valves/seats live longer and add some resistance to pre-ignition of the gasoline(rather high comp ratio). My understanding of the lead for the exh valves/seats is it coats them and provides a bit of a 'cushion' affect for the exhaust valves and seats. Thus it's not acting as a lubricant in this case, but then that's only my understanding. I do not profess to know this as fact.

I do know it boosted the octane rating of the fuel which was needed due to the skimmed heads, the domed Venolias and not running a big enough cam to help out in that regard.

Ken
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I am a big fan of Marvel MO, and will continue to use it till I have an electric car with a nuclear reactor :) But veggie oil is the only thing I ever put in my tank that gave such a fast change in engine performance within just 3 miles, and such a big change I could feel the difference. That's what excited me so much about it. I have found out that pure vegetable oil seems to do more than peanut oil.

Thank you for clarifying the info about the sulphur and the lead johnretired. I'm glad to know the lubricant is added back to the diesel. I was kinda worried about using diesel in the future for that reason. And now that you mention the valve seats, I recall my dad saying the same thing. I always do enjoy hearing the words of a gray headed grease monkey.:) So it did nothing for lubricating the cylinder walls then? So I guess the older leaded gas engines lasted roughly as long then?

Why veggie oil as an additive? Curiosity at first, then suprise at the results. I can buy a gallon of pure veggie oil at wal-mart for $5.48. Kinda high for additive to be sure. However, it displaces 1 gallon of gas that I don't have to buy. This would make the effective price of the additive to me around $2.60.

As great as Marvel Mystery Oil is (it does wonders for a lazy hydraulic lifter) it never has given me the kick-in-the-pants reaction the veggie oil does. At O'Reilly's a 32 oz bottle is $4. At $3 a gallon, it will displace 75 cents of fuel, which makes it cost $3.25. (I kinda figure in buying gas as a bill anymore.)

It's about the same, but the veggie oil sure does make a good conversation piece. Kinda makes people scratch their heads and say whodathunkit?

I might try using a lesser amount of veggie oil to see if it still does the trick. If it does the trick at 48 oz, it might just be a good, less expensive additive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
k20dr, did you use fresh veggie oil or used? And how much oil per gallon gas?

BTW sweet looking scout.
 

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it was used but well cleaned. was in a ford tractor.
I have been hearing alot from the diesel guys that are using 2-stroke oil as an additive in thier dodge diesels for lubrication, and some of them swear it adds fuel mileage also.
does your exhaust smell better with the veggie oil in it?
 

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I read this thread, and it interested me enough to try it as well. I used 1 1/2 gallons of pure vegi oil (Wal-mart) in my 1996 Ford Explorer, it has 186K miles on it, so I figured it may help.

I think the most crazy thing that I have ever done concerning engines was, I ran 6 quarts of diesel fuel instead of oil in my 460 to clean it out (******* engine cleaner :hillbilly:). I ran it for about 800 miles then changed it. Much to my suprise, I had chunks of oily sludge come out when I drained it!:eek: So, diesel works as an engine cleaner from what I see.
 
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