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Discussion starter · #121 ·
The Ally is sitting in storage at the moment. I am dealing with some of life's other annoying interruptions, as well as the upcoming holidays (which are also an annoying interruption), so I don't see it getting done until sometime after new years :(
 
This is a stock 29 spline Alli output that I turned down. I eliminated the original splines, and now it is at the gear shop to be hobbed. When it is done it will be 32 spline, same as a TH400 or 4L80E. This is a test part; in order to completely remove the original splines i had to turn the major diameter down to 1.350". The proper major diameter for a 32 spline 24/48DP 30° involute spline is 1.375", which means I am undersized by .0125" per side. Fortunately, involute splines contact at the pitch diameter, and these are side fit splines, so the .0125" of missing material at the top of each tooth shouldn't make much of a difference. Still, it would be better to make a complete shaft from billet, not only for that reason but also because a stronger alloy can be used. I have a stock 2WD allison shaft which is I'm sure made of the same material. I plan to do some heat treat tests to that shaft to see if it is a through hardenable alloy. If it is I will harden the resplined shaft. If not, I will instead have the resplined shaft carburized which will at least make the splines much stronger and prevent wear.

I fully intend to beat on this shaft and pull it apart in a year or so to see how it is holding up. Although not perfect, resplining a stock shaft is much cheaper than making a new one and if it works fine despite being slightly undersize, then I imagine most swappers would want to go this route rather than buying a $500 billet part.
Max,

The 1000 that came behind my 3.9 ISB has a massive output shaft. It's much bigger in diameter than the 29 spline shaft. I'll try and put a dial caliper on it tomorrow and get a measurement on it and maybe see if I can squeeze in between it and all the s*** behind it to get a photo. Maybe you can find a part number for it and get one from allison to turn down rather than going with a billet shaft.
 
Discussion starter · #123 ·
Max,

The 1000 that came behind my 3.9 ISB has a massive output shaft. It's much bigger in diameter than the 29 spline shaft. I'll try and put a dial caliper on it tomorrow and get a measurement on it and maybe see if I can squeeze in between it and all the s*** behind it to get a photo. Maybe you can find a part number for it and get one from allison to turn down rather than going with a billet shaft.
If it's 2WD it should have a 34 spline output. That shaft is the best one for converting to a 32 spline - just turn it down and cut threads and splines, then heat treat to 40HRC. If you wanted to mate the Ally to a 34 spline Ford 271 or 273 you could turn down and thread the lower half of the splined area and use a split collar nut so tighten it onto the bearing. The splines on the end (about 2" worth) would be left alone to mate with the Ford transfer case. I would still heat treat the shaft to 40 Rockwell though...
 
Max would you know if the display on the dash gets it's signal from the TCM or the ECM.To show the gear selection. for the tapshift and T/H.
I'm going to start working on my truck tomorow after work put the motor back together soo it is all buttened up so I can start boxing in the fram of the old ford.I'm going to start a rebuild thread on the for this prodject I have all the parts for the install for the 6sp. just real excited about making the wirering harness.
Thank again for all your help.
Dale
 
If it's 2WD it should have a 34 spline output. That shaft is the best one for converting to a 32 spline - just turn it down and cut threads and splines, then heat treat to 40HRC. If you wanted to mate the Ally to a 34 spline Ford 271 or 273 you could turn down and thread the lower half of the splined area and use a split collar nut so tighten it onto the bearing. The splines on the end (about 2" worth) would be left alone to mate with the Ford transfer case. I would still heat treat the shaft to 40 Rockwell though...
Yeah, it's a 2WD, but medium duty application. I measured the O.D. of the splines at about 1.750 (with a lousy set of plastic dial calipers), so it's quite a bit bigger in diameter than the 29 spline 4wd shaft.

What is the interchangability of the valve bodies? Can you put a later 6 speed valve body in a 5 speed trans, and are there any cutoff dates with doing so? I ask because I picked up a brand new 5 speed trans at a good price, but would love to convert it to 6 if possible (I realize the controllers are unique to each trans, as well).
 
Discussion starter · #126 ·
Max would you know if the display on the dash gets it's signal from the TCM or the ECM.To show the gear selection. for the tapshift and T/H.
I'm going to start working on my truck tomorow after work put the motor back together soo it is all buttened up so I can start boxing in the fram of the old ford.I'm going to start a rebuild thread on the for this prodject I have all the parts for the install for the 6sp. just real excited about making the wirering harness.
Thank again for all your help.
Dale
The selected gear info originates from the TCM. I believe it is received by the BCM which then retransmits it to the cluster via the low speed GMLAN bus.

Yeah, it's a 2WD, but medium duty application. I measured the O.D. of the splines at about 1.750 (with a lousy set of plastic dial calipers), so it's quite a bit bigger in diameter than the 29 spline 4wd shaft.
Light truck and MD 2WD Ally's use the same output shafts. Yours should be 34 spline. 1-3/4" sounds about right.

What is the interchangability of the valve bodies? Can you put a later 6 speed valve body in a 5 speed trans, and are there any cutoff dates with doing so? I ask because I picked up a brand new 5 speed trans at a good price, but would love to convert it to 6 if possible (I realize the controllers are unique to each trans, as well).
Valve bodies are completely interchangeable among years. You also have to swap the shifter shaft, internal harness, and IMS from the 6 speed. The enternal NSBU switch is not used on 6 speeds, so it is deleted. One thing to keep in mind is that although the 5 speed may have less miles the 6 speeds have a much superior input drum assembly. I would take a good used 6 speed over an unused 5 speed any day of the week.

Finally, if the 5 speed is truly "new", it could have the later 6 speed internals. Theres no way of knowing without pulling and disassembling the input drum. Also, after 2006 the 5 speeds and 6 speeds are the exact same trans and TCM. Only difference is the cal in the TCM locks out 6th.
 
The selected gear info originates from the TCM. I believe it is received by the BCM which then retransmits it to the cluster via the low speed GMLAN bus.



Light truck and MD 2WD Ally's use the same output shafts. Yours should be 34 spline. 1-3/4" sounds about right.



Valve bodies are completely interchangeable among years. You also have to swap the shifter shaft, internal harness, and IMS from the 6 speed. The enternal NSBU switch is not used on 6 speeds, so it is deleted. One thing to keep in mind is that although the 5 speed may have less miles the 6 speeds have a much superior input drum assembly. I would take a good used 6 speed over an unused 5 speed any day of the week.

Finally, if the 5 speed is truly "new", it could have the later 6 speed internals. Theres no way of knowing without pulling and disassembling the input drum. Also, after 2006 the 5 speeds and 6 speeds are the exact same trans and TCM. Only difference is the cal in the TCM locks out 6th.
Well, I guess I should've said "unused" instead of "new". It's got a factory build sticker with a 2004 date. It's an odd duck... SAE#2 housing with a 4WD output (?). It sat at Roush's shop unused for years for a project that never happened...

I'm not too worried about the input drum... it's gonna live an easy life behind a 4 banger.
 
When it comes to converting from a 5 speed to 6 speed, is the Suncoast conversion the best one out there, or? I've got an ISB 170 and a 5 spd Allison that I hope to put in a 1932 Ford PU hot rod. Dang tranny is so wide, that even with widening the truck, it's a challenge.

Octamog, I'm just north of you and have sent you a PM that has gone unread. Hope to be able to talk to you about your ISB 170 experiences. I bought Sam's stuff.

John
 
Thanks Max
i am trying to find the wirering for it tonight not having very much luck sofar.the wirering diagrams that I have doesn't have any info other that for the trany.
Do you think it is possible to remove the shift display from the cluster.
Dale
 
Discussion starter · #130 ·
Do you think it is possible to remove the shift display from the cluster.
Dale
Not likely. I bet there is a single microcontroller that runs the whole deal.
 
you are most likly wright that would be my luck.I might just have to wait for Dakota Digital to come out with one that is a had on for this.The tec guy I talked to said that they were talking about doing some thing for this setup.the day before I talked to him but it would be about a year before it is ready,They have a adon systym now.but itwon't show the tapshift..I just got back from getting some more info.on the wirering and TCM.and all the 80 pin info from a freind if mine that has.alldata/PRO

Dale
 
Np 273 to allison

Another option for a tcase is to use an NP271 or an NP273 case out of a Dodge or a Ford truck. If using the Dodge case you just need to make sure you have the 29 spline input - if using the Ford case you will have to swap the 29 spline input into the Ford case. The bolt pattern is not exact - but only requires on hole on the Allison to be slotted to fit. I used a Dodge case for mock up in my 79 project truck - and that case is now living behind an Allison/Dmax combo installed into a Ford pulling truck. I'm going to be using a Ford case because I like the flange mount joints better than slip yolks. You still need to take care of a a speed signal but you will have the strongest OEM case available.
Would you or anyone else be willing to share some more info on putting the ford 273 behind the Allison? I have a 273 that I want to put behind the Allison in my 06 chevy with the duramax. From what I've read I have to use a clocking ring to swing the case down an inch or more to clear the abs module I've found a clocking ring on eBay and I need to get a 29 spline input. My questions are will I have enough spline engagement with the clocking ring (+3/4) and what is involved in making the shift motor and the speed sensor work.
 
MaxPF

I am willing to help out however I can. I just wanted to thank you for all the time you have spent and your willingness to share all this info with everyone.

I have an 06 Silverado (6 speed obviously), that is my spare truck. If you ever make it to LA, (lower Alabama), you are welcome to test anything you want on it... or mail a controller and I will plug it in.

If you weren't so far away I would just let you borrow the truck.
 
Discussion starter · #134 ·
Just an update. Due to scheduling issues, my friend with the CNC machine shop won't be able to make the Dodge-to-SAE3 adapter ring for at least 4 months. So, I contacted Howard at Howards Allison Conversions, and I will be getting one of his adapters. The Jeep project I have been working on (that has been in my way) is running now, so I can now work on my truck. Since another friend wants the locker out of my 10b front axle, I will swap in the D61 I have in the next week or so, then install the locker in his truck, and then I will pull my trans and start getting the Allison fitted. I figure I will get started by the end of the month. When I get started I will update my build thread.
 
Doed anyone know of a wireing harne for a 06 allison nobody around hear will seporate one from the truck in a salvage yard.One guy said he would but he wanted $600.00 plus exchange.i told him if I had one I wouldn't need his.

Dale
 
Doed anyone know of a wireing harne for a 06 allison nobody around hear will seporate one from the truck in a salvage yard.One guy said he would but he wanted $600.00 plus exchange.i told him if I had one I wouldn't need his.

Dale
Talk to Mike at EFI connection. He can be found at eficonnection.com He makes all kinds of wiring harnesses and if he has the proper ends to do it, I am sure that he can take care of you!!! His work is top notch and he is a heck of a nice guy to boot!!!

Hope this helps!

Mike
 
Talk to Mike at EFI connection. He can be found at eficonnection.com He makes all kinds of wiring harnesses and if he has the proper ends to do it, I am sure that he can take care of you!!! His work is top notch and he is a heck of a nice guy to boot!!!

Hope this helps!

Mike
It cracks me up when salvage yards want a core. I ran into that in the early 90's.
 
Discussion starter · #139 ·
Doed anyone know of a wireing harne for a 06 allison nobody around hear will seporate one from the truck in a salvage yard.One guy said he would but he wanted $600.00 plus exchange.i told him if I had one I wouldn't need his.

Dale
I would be willing to build you a harness, but not until after I get my Ally installed. I built one for another guy on here, but I still haven't shipped it because I want to test it and his TCM. Luckily, he doesn't need it yet (I have had it for quite a few months now), but it sounds like that's not the case with your swap, and I REALLY don't want to send out untested harnesses...
 
I would be willing to build you a harness, but not until after I get my Ally installed. I built one for another guy on here, but I still haven't shipped it because I want to test it and his TCM. Luckily, he doesn't need it yet (I have had it for quite a few months now), but it sounds like that's not the case with your swap, and I REALLY don't want to send out untested harnesses...
I understand" A freind if mine has all the plugs and pins I have all the wiring diagrams also.I geuse I'm strating to get burned out on wiring.Been helping a couple of budies on their street rods.I just have alot to do on the truck that I want to redoo.I was suppose to get one with the trany but henever got it back from the guy that was seperating it from the motor harnes.


Dale
 
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