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Discussion starter · #161 ·
We pulled the trans apart today. P2 was destroyed and P3 was in pretty bad shape. Also messed up c5 clutches from fob.
Apparently, the connection at the back of the trans wasn't plugged in all the way and while rolling foward it tried to engage first gear while already in third.
Looks like I will need all new planetary sets or another trans at this point.
I'm really surprised by the amount of damage done at <5mph at idle.
Having a connector not fully plugged in shouldn't do any damage. AFAIK the VB cannot randomly engage clutches - each shift solenoid operates a spool valve, and regardless of which solenoids are on only two clutches can engage at any given time. This is fixed in the hydraulic plumbing. I have heard of and seen many poeple with Duramaxes have electrical faux-pas with the Allison, and I have never heard of it causing mechanical damage. Generally, hard part damage doesn't occur in DMax trucks until you get into the 500+HP range, and then the damage is almost always the C2 hub and mating P2 splines that get stripped from clutch tie-ups, which is caused by bad ECM tuning (not enough defuel during shifts). I certainly cannot imagine ANY tie-ups causing damage at low speeds.

When you say the planetaries are "destroyed", can you describe the damage? If they are discolored from overhearing, then it is likely the vehicle was flat or sling towed with the trans in neutral. A giveaway of this is galling damage to the ends of the intermediate shaft. If the gears are broken then the most likely culprit is that a planetary failed and a needle bearing fell into the works.

I would wager that this trans was pulled because it was bad. Nobody pulls a working trans from a working truck and replaces it for no reason...

hello Max,

i just swapped a 03 5.9 cummins into my 02 sierra hd using a harness from a 8.1(02) with the allison 5spd using the cat tps method to feed the unmanaged and delivered torque signals directly into the tcm, this method will work for the 5spd correct? we removed TM with efi live and changed every parameter we could find over to Dmax settings, and am having issues with the trans wanting to shift early, roughly 2200rpm when stomping the pedal. i still have the pcm connected to run the gauges in the truck with all other sensors turned off, everything else was basically plug and play. other than the early shifts the trans seems to shift properly and lock up when its supposed to except for tow haul mode, then it runs out to 3k rpm but with massive flare between shift, with hard clunky 2-1 down shifts when coming to a stop, does this in both T/H and normal. have i overlooked something here? for the life of me i cant get it to shift any later, i also cant get efi live to communicate with tcm to see if the tps signals really are doing what they are supposed to, just says communication error. you really seem to know your stuff so any help would be greatly appreciated.
Are both ends of the HS GMLAN bus properly terminated? Scroll up to post #144 in this thread. SuperSonic had the same issues.

You need to monitor the throttle percentage. I have seen issues on the bench now of 95% pulse width on the cat TPS only giving around 60% throttle reading. I think it may have to do with the pull-down in the CAT TPS being too weak. I also noticed that the first 1/3 or so of the minimum PW is dead. I don't believe it has anything to do with the frequency since the same frequency on my signal generator will run indicated TP from 0 to 100%. However, my generator has an open collector output that absolutely, positively, drives the TCM inputs low.

I will try to get back on the bench ASAP and see if I can solve the issue. I'm thinking that pulldown resistors may be required.....

Things like this are why I was concerned about people going full speed ahead with the CAT TPS scheme without everything being debugged first. You are basically making yourselves guinea pigs :D No worries though - I will try to get on the bench tomorrow or Monday and (A)- determine if what I think is a problem really is and (B) - if it IS the problem, devise a simple solution. Give me a few days to get back to you - I will post my findings in this thread.
 
Max Thanks for understanding.
Did you have time to figure something out with the wireing harness.


Dale
 
thanks for the help, and i have no problem being the guinea pig :D. As for the can wires being terminated they are still connected to the pcm, so is everything else as it would be in the 2002 gen3 8.1/allison combo. i would have thought it would work this way for efi live, maybe not. the only thing that is not connected are the unmanaged and delivered tcm inputs for the tps. If i need to pull the can wires to take to the odb2 connector i can im just not 100% sure what pins on the odb connector to use with the j-1939 tcm pins, if this is even correct for the gen 3 controller.
 
hey max, i just had a idea of another way to give the tcm the throttle inputs it needs if it will work. if you do a search on ebay for "dc motor control PWM" there are some inexpensive controllers that output the pwm signal that uses a pot to control the speed or in our case throttle. if we were to replace the pot with a normal 5v tps sensor do you think it would work? some even have adjustable hz.
 
Discussion starter · #167 ·
Max Thanks for understanding.
Did you have time to figure something out with the wireing harness.


Dale
Not yet. It was a busy last week. I will try to get you something in the next couple days.

thanks for the help, and i have no problem being the guinea pig :D. As for the can wires being terminated they are still connected to the pcm, so is everything else as it would be in the 2002 gen3 8.1/allison combo. i would have thought it would work this way for efi live, maybe not. the only thing that is not connected are the unmanaged and delivered tcm inputs for the tps. If i need to pull the can wires to take to the odb2 connector i can im just not 100% sure what pins on the odb connector to use with the j-1939 tcm pins, if this is even correct for the gen 3 controller.
Eh, I forgot that you are running a gen 3 TCM. I dont believe they used the CAN bus on those TCMs, just the regular low speed data link. Not sure why EFI can't communicate - it's a pretty foolproof data transmission link...

No blueing. This was a new takeout from a GM distributor.


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From what I logged before it broke, I am also only reading 60% at the TCM using the PSD TPS.
Yeah, sounds like you're having the same TPS issues. I plan to look into that tomorrow.

I still say the trans was probably broken when you got it. Something, probably a needle bearing, got in there and ate the gears. It's very rare but not unheard of...

hey max, i just had a idea of another way to give the tcm the throttle inputs it needs if it will work. if you do a search on ebay for "dc motor control PWM" there are some inexpensive controllers that output the pwm signal that uses a pot to control the speed or in our case throttle. if we were to replace the pot with a normal 5v tps sensor do you think it would work? some even have adjustable hz.
I dont think frequency is the problem - I think it has to do with the CAT TPS not having a strong enough pull-down. Let me look into it and run some experiments and I will get back to you.
 
Great success!
Got the new trans installed this evening. Double checked that everything was communicating correctly, loaded revised tune to eliminate torque management.
It shifts properly 1st through 3rd. Line pressures, commanded solenoids, everything works right.
It is down shifting at about the right pedal position; up shifting smoothly and locks the converter in nicely.
Tapshift works also.
Tomorrow we will be buttoning up some loose ends and getting it ready to road test.
 
That is great news Chris.

Dale
 
No blueing. This was a new takeout from a GM distributor.


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From what I logged before it broke, I am also only reading 60% at the TCM using the PSD TPS.
ewww...ick.thats just ugly. sorry to see this!
 
Discussion starter · #172 ·
Great success!
Got the new trans installed this evening. Double checked that everything was communicating correctly, loaded revised tune to eliminate torque management.
It shifts properly 1st through 3rd. Line pressures, commanded solenoids, everything works right.
It is down shifting at about the right pedal position; up shifting smoothly and locks the converter in nicely.
Tapshift works also.
Tomorrow we will be buttoning up some loose ends and getting it ready to road test.
Can you see what the indicated throttle percentage is? I have a feeling you are still only seeing 65% or so. If so, this is something that will need to be addressed. I still haven't gotten on the bench to check this out. I've been super busy this week :(
 
Can you see what the indicated throttle percentage is? I have a feeling you are still only seeing 65% or so. If so, this is something that will need to be addressed. I still haven't gotten on the bench to check this out. I've been super busy this week :(
Hopefully that means a continued steady income. :)
 
No blueing. This was a new takeout from a GM distributor.
I would also venture to say that the trans was broke before you received it. I have rebuilt ALOT of automatic transmissions and that will not happen just from moving the truck back and forth in the driveway!!!
just my $.02

Mike
 
I think it may have happened when we changed the extension housing and output shaft.
I have a feeling that the bearing or shim inside of the p2 drum got loose while we had it apart, and got smashed/shredded when we started moving it around.

I have been road testing it some with great results so far.
Had to move all of the shift points down by about 20% and brought lockup on sooner then tightened up the 3-4 shift. Changed the WOT points around and rescaled the tps affected settings to compensate for the tps reading.
 
Great news Chris glad to see the trany is working good sofore.Keep us posted.

Dale
 
Discussion starter · #177 ·
I think it may have happened when we changed the extension housing and output shaft.
I have a feeling that the bearing or shim inside of the p2 drum got loose while we had it apart, and got smashed/shredded when we started moving it around.

I have been road testing it some with great results so far.
Had to move all of the shift points down by about 20% and brought lockup on sooner then tightened up the 3-4 shift. Changed the WOT points around and rescaled the tps affected settings to compensate for the tps reading.
That was my thought for compensating for the dead area at the min and max TPS ranges. I'd still like it to see the full range though...
 
Part no.for the shiftcable 2006 chevy-Allison cable kit,no.#19167308 $154.40
bracket for the cable to the trany. Bracket #15150104 $26.04


Dale
 
I have the 1:58 ratio for mine at the moment.
Dale
 
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