Tranny swap
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If you have a Ford front diff why not go with a ZF S5-42 mated to a 205 or 1356? You can build several ZF's for the price of one NV4500 and they won't lose 5th gear on you.
If I remember right, all the Dodges are 23spl (except for the 29spl 1-ton stuff?) and all share the same bolt pattern so a hesitant yes???
I had to learn fast, as I am mating a 205 to a 47re, which was never offered from the factory as far as I can tell.
I had to learn fast, as I am mating a 205 to a 47re, which was never offered from the factory as far as I can tell.
My NP231 bolts up to the 46rh from a full size truck, which would have had an NP241 I think. What transfer cases were used with the NV4500?
The ZF sounds good, but then I'd need to get another transfer case.
Would the automatic engine/transmission adapter plate work with the NV4500 bellhousing?
The ZF sounds good, but then I'd need to get another transfer case.
Would the automatic engine/transmission adapter plate work with the NV4500 bellhousing?
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IIRC...
Dodge Cummins NV4500 and Getrag are 29 spline outputs
Gas NV4500 pre 2001 are 23 spline
All Dodge NV4500 post 2001 are 29 spline outputs
Here is some basic info on the different NV4500s
http://www.nv4500.com/newsdesk_info.php/newsPath/12/newsdesk_id/32
And for the dodge T-case
http://quad4x4.com/Dodge Transfer Case Parts.htm
Good luck
Dodge Cummins NV4500 and Getrag are 29 spline outputs
Gas NV4500 pre 2001 are 23 spline
All Dodge NV4500 post 2001 are 29 spline outputs
Here is some basic info on the different NV4500s
http://www.nv4500.com/newsdesk_info.php/newsPath/12/newsdesk_id/32
And for the dodge T-case
http://quad4x4.com/Dodge Transfer Case Parts.htm
Good luck
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The 23 spline NV4500 is the light duty version that only holds 4 quarts of oil and has a tiny mainshaft. It's just like the cheezy chevy NV4500 only with synchro reverse.
A Ford ZF S5-42 mated to an NP205 will run a guy $500 and will hold up to anything the 4BT can dish out. They're both 100% off the shelf and common parts available everywhere. No funky adapters. Most guys would jump at the opportunity to toss a chain drive aluminum hunk of junk 231 in the dumpster and run a 205.
A Ford ZF S5-42 mated to an NP205 will run a guy $500 and will hold up to anything the 4BT can dish out. They're both 100% off the shelf and common parts available everywhere. No funky adapters. Most guys would jump at the opportunity to toss a chain drive aluminum hunk of junk 231 in the dumpster and run a 205.
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So what version holds more than 4 quarts of oil? My 29 spline Dodge version also only holds 4 quarts.
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The cummins/V10 version holds 5 quarts.
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I checked the numbers and I think I am off on 5 quarts, but the dodge HD version does hold more than the other ones. The rear extension housing is longer for more oil. I do run them a half quart over full or install a PTO filter which adds some extra capacity.
Chrysler Corp. put out Technical Service Bulletin 21-10-98 to cover warranty repair of any NV4500 due to 5th gear nut. This recall includes dealership instruction on how to fix. Most Dodge NV4500 trannies should already be fixed because of this TSB. If one was done by a dealership it was to be stamped 'New Nut' on top of transmission case, but not all were stamped.
One transmission company decided to capitalize on this problem and offered their revolutionary, none other like it in the world, finest, coolest, bestest repair kit ever invented. That was supposed to justify their ridiculous price I guess? Anyway, for some reason their extra-superfine repair kit soon became unavailable with little explanation, but lots of BS. Prior to that this tranny shop posted all sorts of extremely negative comments about all the other repair kits, explaining how they were complete junk, and how none were any good, except for theirs of course. They've now backed off some on all the bum-kicking and negative hype, but the damage was done, and not by the 5th gear nut. Far as I know even several years later now, their wonder kit is still unavailable.
BTW: my '96 Dodge/Cummins 2WD NV4500 uses 4 qts fluid to bottom of fill hole on level ground, from bone dry.
One transmission company decided to capitalize on this problem and offered their revolutionary, none other like it in the world, finest, coolest, bestest repair kit ever invented. That was supposed to justify their ridiculous price I guess? Anyway, for some reason their extra-superfine repair kit soon became unavailable with little explanation, but lots of BS. Prior to that this tranny shop posted all sorts of extremely negative comments about all the other repair kits, explaining how they were complete junk, and how none were any good, except for theirs of course. They've now backed off some on all the bum-kicking and negative hype, but the damage was done, and not by the 5th gear nut. Far as I know even several years later now, their wonder kit is still unavailable.
BTW: my '96 Dodge/Cummins 2WD NV4500 uses 4 qts fluid to bottom of fill hole on level ground, from bone dry.
Yes it can, but it may be cheaper to buy the right one up front, unless you plan to go through it anyway. The parts aren't cheap at all, but it can be done. Also might be able to swap with somebody who wants to go in the other direction? Save you both a whole bunch of work.
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Where do you get this crap from? Go open up any cummins nv4500. Just pull the extension housing off and wiggle 5th gear and it's nut. If you have an NV4500 and change the fluid in it yourself, ever notice the reddish brown crud inside the tranny? That's not from the synchro or bearing wear buddy, that's evidence of fretting. Fretting is 5th gear, 5th nut, rear mainshaft bearing inner race and reverse thrust loose on the mainshaft and grinding into it. Given time, mainshaft 5th gear will spin on the mainshaft, countershaft 5th gear will wear the countershaft unevenly from being sideloaded by a wobbling 5th mainshaft gear and the rear mainshaft bearing can spin in the transmission case. After this you end up with a boat anchor.
You obviously don't grasp the concept of what the NV4500 5th gear problem is or what it takes to fix it. Fixing it takes a thicker, full spline mainshaft machined from high grade raw material. There is only one company out there offering a full spline NV4500 mainshaft and 5th gear that holds up and it isn't even remotely cheap for the parts or to have it installed. The fact is though Dodge's fixes couldn't even be considered bandaids for the problem. They do nothing to solve the problem. 5th nut is not the issue. The issue is the mainshaft itself.
BTW, that "one company" offering the good full spline mainshafts is called quad4x4. I buy tons of parts from Dan and have never had a single issue with any of his stuff. His torque king mainshafts do hold up where the OE NVG stuff and all other aftermarket parts fail. Ask the hotshotters that make a living running the heck out of thier 5.9 trucks and have gone through half a dozen NV4500's in 300K miles then finally spring for the torque king mainshaft and it never breaks again.
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BTW, better than 1/2 the failed NV4500's I repair are equipped with dodges "super nut". Thier fix is a joke. It doesn't take a genius to realize while tearing down your first NV4500 that the nut is still in the same place it was when it was originally installed. The nut didn't back off. The interferrence fit that's supposed to be there between the mainshaft and 5th gear is no longer there, you can wiggle 5th gear all over the place if your lucky, if you're not so lucky you can spin 5th gear freely on the shaft.
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You're working on all dodge-4500's right? Just curious, My pops had a 92 2500 with the 4500 tranny. It pulled a 30ft gooseneck for 140k for the first owner then another 56k for us hauling firewood & towing (350V8). Never had any OD issues. Even got submerged once (flooded out) and the motor/tranny held up fine after being drained of course
(Broke the starter - hydrolocked it trying to remove zee aqua):rasta:Actually, in my estimation, you're far too much of an egotistical, self-centered and self-proclaimed expert to have a rational conversation with.
Even though you are one of very few people who hold this opinion of Dodge NV4500's in general, you've convinced yourself that you have superior cognition of all things transmission. Your opinion of your own vast knowledge [accumulated in how many years?] is so expansive that it's your regular habit to be insulting, condescending, and a tiresome boor, even on a friendly internet forum. Your opinion, though astoundingly impressive in your own higly compressed cranium, is not shared by the very large majority of happy Dodge Cummins NV4500 owners.
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Maybe I have come off a little high and mighty on the transmission opinions, for that I apologize. I did not mean to offend anyone or come off as an asshole. I'm not an idiot hiding behind a keyboard making false claims about NV4500's to build up my ego.
I work on these things all the time. Yeah, being in my position I do see the worst of the worst and my opinion could be biased from that. In the NV4500's defense, I do know of one and just one behind a cummins that has made it to almost 400K miles untouched and still going. The tranny is rough, but it's still going. On the flip side, They can fail at 50K miles under heavy use. The average life for one before the driver begins to realize there's a problem is the 150K mile area for one in a daily driven dodge, not some hotshot tow rig, just a driver.
The ZF S5-42 seams to have about the same lifespan behind PSD's (150K miles). Under real hard use, the ZF's lifespan goes down considerably from case stretch to around 80K-100K. The big difference is the ZF just needs bearings and synchros, many times they don't even need synchros. They don't need a new mainshaft and 5th gear like the NV4500.
To me, the ZF is a pretty good option when you look at price and availability. If a guy actually took the time to reshim a ZF every 50K miles to compensate for case stretch the tranny might last indefinitely. The bearings go out when the clearances get sloppy from case stretch. I know that's not practical, but it's an idea anyway.
I work on these things all the time. Yeah, being in my position I do see the worst of the worst and my opinion could be biased from that. In the NV4500's defense, I do know of one and just one behind a cummins that has made it to almost 400K miles untouched and still going. The tranny is rough, but it's still going. On the flip side, They can fail at 50K miles under heavy use. The average life for one before the driver begins to realize there's a problem is the 150K mile area for one in a daily driven dodge, not some hotshot tow rig, just a driver.
The ZF S5-42 seams to have about the same lifespan behind PSD's (150K miles). Under real hard use, the ZF's lifespan goes down considerably from case stretch to around 80K-100K. The big difference is the ZF just needs bearings and synchros, many times they don't even need synchros. They don't need a new mainshaft and 5th gear like the NV4500.
To me, the ZF is a pretty good option when you look at price and availability. If a guy actually took the time to reshim a ZF every 50K miles to compensate for case stretch the tranny might last indefinitely. The bearings go out when the clearances get sloppy from case stretch. I know that's not practical, but it's an idea anyway.
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Thanks Dustin,
Now that's the type of impartial information we are all looking for. I think we want the facts along with somewhat impartial opinions first. The good points along with the down side of what we could experience in some cases. This information will then let us make an unbiased decision as to what transmission we want to use.
Now that's the type of impartial information we are all looking for. I think we want the facts along with somewhat impartial opinions first. The good points along with the down side of what we could experience in some cases. This information will then let us make an unbiased decision as to what transmission we want to use.
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