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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So far I have found trying to pump and filter vegetable oil to be a highly annoying process. Here's my trial and error for pumps: 1. high capacity drill pump from Northern tool had great flow and primed easily, but broke several times with the plastic "wipe inserts" in the impeller coming off. It finally broke from too much pressure trying to pump through a .5 micron filter. 2. 12V water transfer pump from tractor supply is said to be self priming, but will not suck oil from a drum. Luckily I managed to clean it up enough to get my money back. 3. $7 drill pump from lows works, but will not suck oil to self prime and will not push oil through a filter. 4. $69 12V diesel/wvo pump sold on Ebay is complete junk. will not self prime even though it is supposed to. Motor sticks sometimes unless you rotate the shaft past the "bad spot". Will not push oil through filters smaller than 5 micron. 5. Broke down and bought a $98 pnuematic piston pump for drums. Unfortunantly my compressor doesn't put out enough air to operate. Hopefully I can clean it up enough to take it back too.
Right now I'm thinking about buying a $30 steel hand crank barrel pump and welding a socket onto the hand crank and using a air ratchet to spin it. ......................
This has been one of the more annoying experiments I've tried.
 

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Sorry about your troubles! I've been studying up on conversions for several weeks. Took me a while to realize that many people posting on the WVO forums have an ulterior motive: they either sell kits, parts or conversions. That means that much of the info is outright lies to make a buck! "Oh, yeah, this system is so great you just suck veggie in this end and fuel comes out the other and it's only $1,500!!"

While that may be true on the outside, the inside scoop tells about the catastrophic engine damage, blown injection pumps that can't even be rebuilt, breakdowns on the road, and endless nightmares & headaches! THERE'S NO FREE LUNCH!

To do it successfully requires a whole bunch of physical and mental effort, research, design and top notch parts in a mechanically engineered system. Cross contamination, fuel impurities down to sub micron, water that's formed bonds with damaging chemicals and is held in suspension within the oil, sugars, acids, polymerization etc. etc. etc. can really rain on your one-man parade.

My opinion: if a guy tries to whip together a system on the cheap he's going to more than pay for it in the long run, if not in a month or two, with a toasted engine and injection pump! That's sure not a cheap rebuild if a guy can even do it?

It can work and does work, but you have to do the homework, buy the RIGHT equipment, install it correctly and maintain it as needed. What I'm saying is if you cut corners anywhere, discount this and cheap that, you will end up very unhappy and broke down and broke.

RE your problem: first you have to heat the oil, and maybe let gravity work for you in primary filtration. Then further filtration of pumping warmed oil in filter stages down to .5 micron can be done. Some use a Surflo RV type pump, with warm oil that has been prefiltered to remove large particles. Following that a recycling filtration may get it down to useable fuel. After that onboard filtration may, that's may, protect the injection pump, injectors and internal engine parts.

It's near impossible to ram untreated unfiltered WVO through a .5 micron filter and you will also be buying a whole bunch of those filters before you're done. If it isn't pre-filtered and heated you can easily blow out the filtration material in cheap filters while pumping through under pressure.

I wish we could all 'run for free' but I am now convinced it takes a lot of work and proper parts & pieces assembled properly in order to be happy in the long term. Hope it woks for you!
 

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What kind of filter are you using that is .5 micron?
You need a pump that has a bypass to protect it from being overloaded.

I've heard good things about this pump:
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-pumps-water/smart-sensor-water-pump.htm

And this one:
http://www.redlinepumps.com/

But basically you need one pump for filtering(high pressure low volume) and another for collecting(high volume low pressure)

I've had good luck filtering through a 1 micron filterbag vessel with the harbor freight 1" water pump(the blue one). It doesn't self prime, but it does work well enough for the money if you set it up on a gravity feed.
With warm oil and a 6x24 1 mic(nominal) bag filter i get about 1 GPM of flow.

I've since changed to a dieselcraft centrifuge system that filters at 10 GPH down to a supposed .5 mic.
 

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Try a pump like this, I got mine from ebay and works great self priming and can push through a 10 mic filter with no problems.
You may need a compressor that has a good volume to use one.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ARO-MODEL-66605...ryZ46547QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
These diaphram pumps hold up pretty well but create unique problems. They do take a lot of air. We use large units like this at work. We don't have an air supply problem (3 150hp 3 stage compressors). When pumping through gear driven meters they will break the metal gears. The piping pusles (hammers) with them. Each cycle of the pump creates a pulse of pressure. Then the pressure stops at the end of the pusle before the pump again pusles. I would think this could rip a filter bag. When we load trucks and RR cars with these the loading arm has to be chained in place or it will jump out of the loading dome. These pumps are not hard to rebuild when it is needed. Care must be used when piping them or the plastic housings will crack. I would prefer a centrifigul pump for smooth operation.
 

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These diaphram pumps hold up pretty well but create unique problems. They do take a lot of air. We use large units like this at work. We don't have an air
supply problem (3 150hp 3 stage compressors). When pumping through gear driven meters they will break the metal gears. The piping pusles (hammers) with them. Each cycle of the pump creates a pulse of pressure. Then the pressure stops at the end of the pusle before the pump again pusles. I would think this could rip a filter bag. When we load trucks and RR cars with these the loading arm has to be chained in place or it will jump out of the loading dome. These pumps are not hard to rebuild when it is needed. Care must be used when piping them or the plastic housings will crack. I would prefer a centrifigul pump for smooth operation.

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Ya thay do move around a bit, I have a 1/2" pump and run mine as slowly as possible to prevent as much movement as I can. And I filter through a Racor filter. It works for now, I would like to get a centrifugal type filter and see how it would work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the advice. I'm still working and trying. Haven't given up yet. I did find a good way to heat the oil and boil off the water.
1. Cut a 55 gal drum in half.
2. Place 4 bricks inside.
3. but a few pieces of fatwood in the drum.
4. Put a 30 gal metal trash can in the 1/2 drum setting on the bricks.
5. stuff some kindling around the sides.
6. Put your oil in the trash can (not more than 25 gal as the handles will leak some oil).
7. put some gas in to start the fire.
8. Use a flat blade shovel to scoop oil out and drizzle it on the fire.
9. takes about 1.5 hours to get 25 gal of oil to 400+ degrees.
10. Put the fire out when your done and put the lid on the can about 1 hour after you finish.
 

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Thanks for the advice. I'm still working and trying. Haven't given up yet. I did find a good way to heat the oil and boil off the water.
1. Cut a 55 gal drum in half.
2. Place 4 bricks inside.
3. but a few pieces of fatwood in the drum.
4. Put a 30 gal metal trash can in the 1/2 drum setting on the bricks.
5. stuff some kindling around the sides.
6. Put your oil in the trash can (not more than 25 gal as the handles will leak some oil).
7. put some gas in to start the fire.
8. Use a flat blade shovel to scoop oil out and drizzle it on the fire.
9. takes about 1.5 hours to get 25 gal of oil to 400+ degrees.
10. Put the fire out when your done and put the lid on the can about 1 hour after you finish.
I saw a turkey fryer go up in flames when some of the oil spilled down the side......hot oil is dangerous. I would keep the operation away from anything you might miss. :smokin:
 

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I let mine settle in 55 gal drums for 3-4 weeks, and pump off the top with a 12volt fuel pump, 3/8 line, right into a t-shirt over a 5 gallon bucket, with a sink drain in the bottom so it goes into a 30 gal drum. works great. in the winter you can heat the barrel with a water heater element setup, and it filters fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I think I'm going about it the wrong way. I have thought that pumping through cartridge filters would be best. I am now beginning to think that gravity filtering through filter bags and cloth etc. Might be best.......Today I have one more try on the pumps. I have a old fashioned barrel pump. I will be welding a 3/8 drive adapter on the shaft and will try to use my pneumatic socket wrench to spin it.

As far as the fire hazard thing goes. I did this out by the woodshed with a water hose handy and raked all the pinestraw away around it. It was suprisingly controllable. 30gal of oil doesn't rise quickly in temp. It is easy to get a turkey fryer way too hot really fast. It is important to have a lid for the trash can in case it does flash. You can actually set the lid on the can with the shovel handle if the fire was too much. ....................The only time I came close to having trouble was when I sprayed water in the drum(not the can full of oil) to put out the fire. There was oil burning in the drum and when the water hit it it spattered and flashed a bit.
 
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PLEASE, don't try to put out an oil fire with a garden hose! The 2 just don't mix at all! You can get incinerated quick that way.
 

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the blue HF /northern pumps work good for home filteration. the do need to be force fed, though.

the redline pump linked to above is a SBC oil pump coupled to an electric motor.

there is a great method of gravity filtering http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/7611079412here, if you can get thru the meaningless dribble that pollutes some of these threads;)
 

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the redline pump linked to above is a SBC oil pump coupled to an electric motor.
I wonder how he keeps oil from leaking around the drive shaft. I have never seen an oil pump with a seal there.
 

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I will be welding a 3/8 drive adapter on the shaft and will try to use my pneumatic socket wrench to spin it.
An air ratchet would work, but don't use an air impact.

I just finished making a pump from a rotary harbor freight barrel pump and a 12 volt RV camper slide-out gearmotor. It is the right torque and speed. I'll run it from a 12 volt battery with a 10 amp charger supplying extra "oomph".
 

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I have not used one of them, so I cannot say from personal experience

the shaft leakage does appear to be a bit of an issue with homemade units, some peeps have discovered that by cutting a channel w/ a dremel tool that goes around the shaft and to the input side of the pump reduces leakage, and will still lube the shaft well enough. this is w/ 0 head/ backpressure, using only to transfer oil. and for this purpose, a few drops leaking out is not a big deal.

I would imagine the redline pumps mill in a bushing or seal. I hope so for the premium they charge for a SBC oil pump.

another pump that peeps are having good luck with are sureflo units. you can get them w/ viton diaphragms. slow, but good for pushing thru filters.

lots of info on oil sump pumps and sureflo's can be had at the infopopbiodiesel forum.

Heres a link to SBC pumps, for one

 

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Where have I been

Holly Crap,

Where have I been to save you all of this grief.

I too purchased one of those e-bay pumps as a back up. What a POS. IT will never work with the design. I opened it up. Got screwed on that deal.

But before I bought that I have used two other pumps and have pumped thousands of gallons through one of them.

The Harbor Freight 12V Fil right for 156 is absolutly amazing. Litterally thousands of gallons and tough as nails. Had to bypass the switch after I left it out in the rain for a week and once I pumped with out a filter and got a piece of plastic stuck in the wheel (neat design) other than that great. It pumps a little slower than my other pump but it is good as I use it for my filter now.

I have a canister filter (Bag filter inside a large tube). I can't get to the link I made on Youtube becuase I'm at work but just type in Mercedes WVO and it should be the first video. I can filter 55 gallons in 10 minutes. Only doing 10 micron right now but I go forever on that rating anyway so I am not to picky.

But anyway the other awesome pump is the Northern Tool pump (comes with teh handle and blue hoses...which are a bit short but work). I had one problem with it blowing a fuse which turned out to be a key in the pump gear was not made to tolerance and was causing friction. Went to the grinder and took off 1/8 inch and it works great still. This pump is much faster than the Fil right but it is loud as hell and sometimes pumps to quick for filling up my cars at the spout.

For that I use a small 12V water pump from Harbor frieght. Doesn't push enough to overflow but takes awhile.

Good luck. Sorry you had all those troubles. Buy one of each of these watch my video and make one and be all the happier for it.
 

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Y'all seem to be spending a lot of money on these pumps, and I was pondering the problems when a possible solution occured to me.

If you were to put the oil to be filtered in a good condition 55 gallon drum, installed an air-tight siphon hose into the lid (maybe weld a steel water line into the lid and hook hoses to either end) and then put an air-hose connector in the lid and used an air compressor, wouldn't that be enough power to push the oil through any filter you wanted? I wouldn't want to use too much air pressure in case the drum ruptured, but surely 20-35 psi line pressure would do the trick and still be safe. Nice thing is the "pump" would never come into contact with the oil, and should last the normal lifetime of the air compressor. You'd just need to have a fairly air-tight drum. Never filtered oil before, but I can't see how it wouldn't work so long as some bozo didn't try to rush things and put 60 psi into the drum and cause it to rupture.

Thoughts?
 

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You can always skip those powered, sissy-boy pumps and go for one of these. You can then pump as fast as your arm can power it - you don't have to wait around for the little electric motor... Plus - after using it for a while, you shouldn't be stuck with little girly-man arms anymore!

They work well - and you'd be surprised how fast you can move a lot of WVO with them.
 

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hahahah.

I have one of those too. I did a few hundred gallons with it but why. POS broke when I lent it to my buddy anyway and they need rebuild more often as the rubber seals inside give out. Your arm sure does get a work out though and for the money you can't beat them.

Here is the video I was talking about. I can filter a lot of oil really quick. I fill up with about 55 gallons in my tanks on the way home from work in about 15 minutes. Then I pull my truck up and filter as I take it off and takes about15 minutes. Then I have it whenever I need to fill up my 50 gallon fuel tank in my truck. 30 mins work. No sweat, no mess, no time. I can't make 300+ dollars an hour at any other job. WVO all the way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca8J2UFoDSQ
 
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