[Machman]

Well, I took the beast up the hill to Dad's for Thanksgiving, came up the road just fine on Wednesday evening, and this morning it was 19°F when I went out to crank up to leave. It was a bit harder than usual to start (even allowing for cold), and put out a significant smoke cloud, but did start. I let it idle about 30 mins while getting stuff packed in, etc. then took off.

Got 50 yards down the road from the driveway, came to the stop sign, and there she shut down. It re-started ONCE when I gave it some of the ol' foot-feed, but shut down again when attempting to idle. Checked, had fuel spurt out of the bleeder port when I let it loose, and got fuel squirts when I pumped the primer lever. So, I pretty much thought I had water / gel issues.

Called CrewCab59, discussed, and his thoughts were gel/water issues, too.

I've been using additive with every fill-up at the recommended dosage, but I'd noticed the last two times I started it at sub 40°F temps it was NOT starting like the first time I tried those temps. About 5 full revolutions of the engine before it hit.

So, I got MORE diesel anti-gel, put one quart in the 1/2 full tank, the other filled the new filter I always carry with me, primed, primed, primed, cranked, cranked, primed, cranked, primed... You get the idea.

I think after about 10 mins of prime prime crank it finally gave me hope in the form of one *chuff*, so I cracked an injector (you DO have a 17mm line wrench in your tool kit that STAYS IN THE VEHICLE, right?), cranked some more, and BINGO.. Ran home without a hitch. (Well, we won't go into the fact that now the alternator seems to be less than happy, but that's another post..)

So, lessons learned (really, re-learned). Always carry a spare fuel filter, in cold weather, always carry a couple of quarts of good anti-gel as part of the "oh, crap" kit, double up on the dosing of your fuel, and keep the right tools on hand. I had access to all of the above, so I got home.

And let's not understate how nice it is to have resources like CrewCab59 to run things around the ol' noggin with!

 

[Whit]

Good job CrewCab59

Yes resources are very valuable in the time of need .........we all bring something different to the table

Good Friends are invaluable

 

[CrewCab59]

Well, I took the beast up the hill to Dad's for Thanksgiving, came up the road just fine on Wednesday evening, and this morning it was 19°F when I went out to crank up to leave. It was a bit harder than usual to start (even allowing for cold), and put out a significant smoke cloud, but did start. I let it idle about 30 mins while getting stuff packed in, etc. then took off.

Got 50 yards down the road from the driveway, came to the stop sign, and there she shut down. It re-started ONCE when I gave it some of the ol' foot-feed, but shut down again when attempting to idle. Checked, had fuel spurt out of the bleeder port when I let it loose, and got fuel squirts when I pumped the primer lever. So, I pretty much thought I had water / gel issues.

Called CrewCab59, discussed, and his thoughts were gel/water issues, too.

I've been using additive with every fill-up at the recommended dosage, but I'd noticed the last two times I started it at sub 40°F temps it was NOT starting like the first time I tried those temps. About 5 full revolutions of the engine before it hit.

So, I got MORE diesel anti-gel, put one quart in the 1/2 full tank, the other filled the new filter I always carry with me, primed, primed, primed, cranked, cranked, primed, cranked, primed... You get the idea.

I think after about 10 mins of prime prime crank it finally gave me hope in the form of one *chuff*, so I cracked an injector (you DO have a 17mm line wrench in your tool kit that STAYS IN THE VEHICLE, right?), cranked some more, and BINGO.. Ran home without a hitch. (Well, we won't go into the fact that now the alternator seems to be less than happy, but that's another post..)

So, lessons learned (really, re-learned). Always carry a spare fuel filter, in cold weather, always carry a couple of quarts of good anti-gel as part of the "oh, crap" kit, double up on the dosing of your fuel, and keep the right tools on hand. I had access to all of the above, so I got home.

And let's not understate how nice it is to have resources like CrewCab59 to run things around the ol' noggin with!

No problem , Just glad I could help ya .

Scott

 

[LincTex]

So, I pretty much thought I had water / gel issues.

Did you ever find the exact cause?

 

[CrewCab59]

Did you ever find the exact cause?

Water & cold weather does everytime , not driving the truck everyday ,not having a full tank , getting fuel that has water at the pump and during the summer time you'll never know the difference.

Scott

 

[Machman]

Did you ever find the exact cause?

I may never know exactly which I was fighting (usually they go hand-in-hand), but I'm thinking that I got a slug of gel into someplace critical in the IP, and mebby into the injection lines themselves, since I had to crack injector lines to get it to finally kick in on all 4.

Looking back, I've probably not driven the thing enough to run through the "summer weight" fuel that was in there, even with a fill-up a few days before going to Dad's. Combined with that, the place where I fueled may not have been the best choice, as I'm not sure that he moves that much diesel. Slow diesel sales = bad fuel in most cases. I'm going to go to a better place to fuel in the future, and I'm going to double the dosing of the fuel during the winter months.

And I think I'll put off experiments with B20 until the spring.

 

[LincTex]

Slow diesel sales = bad fuel in most cases.

That is pretty much what I was thinking. I was wondering if it was a one time deal or was going to keep happening all winter long.

 

[Machman]

That is pretty much what I was thinking. I was wondering if it was a one time deal or was going to keep happening all winter long.

I think I know where a couple of fleets fill that the general public can pull in and tank up, too. Failing that, I'll run to a Pilot or Flying Hook truckstop and tank the thing.

 

[486]

I'm a daily driver of a 4BT powered Ex-Frito truck. It's my work rig. I started having a lack of power yesterday as my tank got towards the last 1/4. I really noticed it going up some hills around town. I changed the filter, and inspected the old filter guts, not really anything to note, or worry about. Since the filter change, it's only getting worse?!

I have these symtoms.

The truck idles rougher than it normaly would.
I don't have full power
When I wind it up in RPM's, it starts coughing, and HUGE white/grey cloud pours from the exuast.

Is this water in my fuel?

I have not filled up again yet. What do you guys recomend?

I am going to put a DAVCO 382 that I have in as a Primary filter, and leave the stock filter in place after it, as a secondary. If there is water in there, this Davco will get er out!

http://www.davcotec.com/fp382.htm

 

[LincTex]

I changed the filter, and inspected the old filter guts, not really anything to note, or worry about. Since the filter change, it's only getting worse?!

Sounds like a lift pump problem.
Do you have an electric pump you can swap in line to see if that's the problem?

 

[486]

Sounds like a lift pump problem.
Do you have an electric pump you can swap in line to see if that's the problem?

I highly dubt it to be my lift pump. To my understanding these lift pumps either work, or they dont. Anyone else back that up?

I'm going to fill up today, and try to find a product that will emulsify any water that may be in there with the fuel, so I can just burn it out.

edited: 4pm, i was wrong!
eh... scratch that.. i pulled the lift pump, and did a little bench test, it's leaking air/fuel, to/from crank case.

Called up my good friends down at Diesel Fuel Injection Services here in Portland, OR. They had a DELPHI fp-702 Cummins Piston Lift Pump on stock. It was supposedly a low PSI pump, but I was not 100% sure in my gut. Not to mention, that they didn't have any size 12 banjo's that I would have needed to set up a flex line from the output of the pump to the filter manifold.
I needed the truck running asap, so I just went with a DELPHI replacement for the stock Diaphram pump. $43 bucks. I changed the oil, threw the new pump in place, primed her up real quick, and did a quick test by holding the engine @ top RPM's for 1 MIN, Test passed! Engine did not hesitate, cough and die as previously was happening.

LincTex, you were right!

Man... fourums are wonderful!

UPDATE:

I'll be Damned! It happend again, after I installed the new lift pump! This time I had to trouble shoot in the parking lot of a Thrifty Auto parts joint!

What I found was the I had a SERIOUS fuel line obstruction?! I have a oil transfer pump on board my truck. I disconnected the Fuel line from the tank, and tried to pull some fuel up, and could only get a tiny amount to PISS through the line, this developed 20+hg on the vacuum guage on the pump manifold.
It's not freezing here at all. I proudly run B-100 in my truck, seems that it has freed up some tank sludge from years of PETRO fuel :skull: and it's obstructing my stand pipe.

So for now, I'm running on a 6 gallon Jerry Can, bungied in place.

 

[LincTex]

Always happy to help.

 

[JimmieD]

In the big picture, this is one of the Top 10 threads ever posted in this forum!

Thanks for sharing the ongoing adventure, Machman, and thanks to Scott & Linc: you probably helped us all somewhere down the road!!!

I visited that Daveco website, any ideas what that #382 12VDC heated filter sells for, or any of them? Looks like a nice item and my 4BT keeps mumbling, "Christmas is coming you know....."

 

[486]

About the DAVCO filters

I visited that Daveco website, any ideas what that #382 12VDC heated filter sells for, or any of them? Looks like a nice item and my 4BT keeps mumbling, "Christmas is coming you know....."

They are not cheap, $300+ but worth every damn bent penny! Not to mention that these are All American made!
I would skip the 12V heater, and get one with the plug in AC heater. You would plug it in at night. Then make sure that your unit has the Liquid heat exchanger option so you can hook it into your Coolant, or Fuel return system to scavenge heat once your rig is running. In my experience, this works much better than 12V.
These filters are installed on many semi trucks no days, try hunting around the scrapper yard for one used and on the cheap.

 

[Machman]

I am going to put a DAVCO 382 that I have in as a Primary filter, and leave the stock filter in place after it, as a secondary. If there is water in there, this Davco will get er out!

http://www.davcotec.com/fp382.htm

Those look a LOT like the ones Cummins has:

http://www.fleetguard.com/en/products/en_prod_inn_fuelpro.shtml

 

[JimmieD]

Good solid advice, 486, thanks for the feedback!