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I just wanted to see if anybody out there is running a water-methanol injection setup on your 4BT. I am looking at Snow Performance Diesel Stage 1 Boost Cooler™ Universal which is good up to 25 pounds of boost.

Water-methanol injection has a lot of benifits, so I wanted to see if we could start a tech thread on here with everybodys setups. Since there is no real kit for our setups I would like to see what you guys have done and the results you have seen, like EGT's, boost levels, power, and economy. (before and after)


Thanks
 

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I really hope some people chime in on this thread. I can't decide if I want to run Water-Meth or Nitrous.
 

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I had initially planned on a propane injection kit for mine, but decided that it might be a little wiser to go water/meth because water and washer fluid are far more available if I am towing something somewhere and need a refill. Since I installed a 33 gal. fuel tank in the rear between the frame rails when I did my swap, that left my stock fuel tank as a perfect reservoir for 19 gallons of washer fluid (75% water/ 25% methanol), which is easily refilled with straight water if I run out on the road somewhere. I am still in the process of collecting parts to finish building my own system; I already have three each 300psi solenoids and small stainless steel expansion tanks, I still need to get a pump, three adjustable boost switches, and three VERY small misting nozzles. I am going to make my system a three-stage setup (obviously!) with the boost switches adjusted to activate its respective solenoid somewhere around 10, 15, and then 20 psi. I am building this more for EGT control when towing rather than performance, and am going to use fairly small nozzles so that it can be more of a continuous duty system rather than an on-demand quick shot kind of deal, hence the use of a 19 gal. tank. Additionally, as mentioned by CC12V, methanol is a fuel so with some proper tuning I should be able to increase my mileage a small amount and displace some of my $3.25/gal diesel fuel with $1.25/gal washer fluid. When I finish the setup, I will post my results!
 

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19 gallons!!!!:cow: WOW, thats a lot! I just want to play with mine, not going to tow that much.
 

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I had initially planned on a propane injection kit for mine, but decided that it might be a little wiser to go water/meth because water and washer fluid are far more available if I am towing something somewhere and need a refill. Since I installed a 33 gal. fuel tank in the rear between the frame rails when I did my swap, that left my stock fuel tank as a perfect reservoir for 19 gallons of washer fluid (75% water/ 25% methanol), which is easily refilled with straight water if I run out on the road somewhere. I am still in the process of collecting parts to finish building my own system; I already have three each 300psi solenoids and small stainless steel expansion tanks, I still need to get a pump, three adjustable boost switches, and three VERY small misting nozzles. I am going to make my system a three-stage setup (obviously!) with the boost switches adjusted to activate its respective solenoid somewhere around 10, 15, and then 20 psi. I am building this more for EGT control when towing rather than performance, and am going to use fairly small nozzles so that it can be more of a continuous duty system rather than an on-demand quick shot kind of deal, hence the use of a 19 gal. tank. Additionally, as mentioned by CC12V, methanol is a fuel so with some proper tuning I should be able to increase my mileage a small amount and displace some of my $3.25/gal diesel fuel with $1.25/gal washer fluid. When I finish the setup, I will post my results!
Most of the blue washer fluid that has a -20 degree rating has 40 percent methanol, and 60 percent water. Some people report that Wal Mart fuild has up to a 50/50 mix of meth/water.-:) Building a 2 stage system for mine right now! Great idea to use that unsed fuel tank. I'm adding a Suburban tank in the rear to mine, and I will probably steal your idea, and use one of the existing tanks for the water/meth.
Bob B.
 

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I am sure you can get 55's of washer fluid from a local oil dealership for way cheeeper than wally world.....
 

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This is an awesome idea on the 19 Gallon tank. That sure is a lot of fluid. You will have to keep us updated as I would be really interested to hear how it helped with performance, mpg, and of course EGTs.
 

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We ended up buying a 55 gal drum of meth, and just mixing our own. Way cheeper than buying it premade in gallons or in 55s since you are still paying for water and the dye/soap thats in it. By the way a chemical plant I used to work for made washer fluid, and the soap that is used is actually pretty darn stout.... and if you put about a cup in a fountain it shure makes alot of bubbles! :rasta: bounce So I have been told...LOL
 

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can someone explain exactly how one would set up a water/meth system?

i've heard people talk of them, but being primarily familiar with gas engines i'm sure it's got to be different than a NO2 setup, no?
 

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Best I understand, it is a fine mist sprayed somewhere into the intake snorkel after the air filter and before the intake manifold........

PLEASE someone who knows tells us!!!!!!:D
 

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Most of the pieces can be found at local parts sup like graingers, and big rig parts houses. Hobbs switches will turn on the pump at a certain PSI of boost, and the feed line is the plastic air hose line and fittings that are used on air bags. Now the hard part is finding the pump and spray tips that are the right PSI and spray pattern/volume. I know that alot of guys have used pumps off of 12volt yard sprayers, but when I compaired them they were about half of the PSI of the one from Snows Perf. We were amazed at the amount of water that is put out, but it is also in a very fine mist, where some of the chemical sprayers are more of a mist/water droplets. It would be much better to have more small sprayers than one big rain maker in the intake track. Oh, make sure that the tips cannot come loose and fall into the intake!!! I have been wanting to make a kit that is run off of nitrogen bottle for the race truck, but I havent got to run it with more than one stage of nitrous, so that will have to wait. All in all, by the time you sorce parts, try to make everything work, you could get a new or used one off of ebay and not have to reinvent the wheel. My2C;)
 

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Best I understand, it is a fine mist sprayed somewhere into the intake snorkel after the air filter and before the intake manifold........

PLEASE someone who knows tells us!!!!!!:D

After the TURBO and before the intake manifold, to be precise. There are three advantages to spraying water/methanol in a diesel engine. First, as discussed briefly earlier in this thread methanol is a fuel, and the benefits of injecting extra fuel into your combustion chamber should be obvious. Second, the 'combustion' (vaporization to steam) of water during the power stroke makes for a little extra cylinder pressure, thereby making more power. Third, and probably most important, is the cooling effect on the intake charge that is realized by introducing a fine mist of water. Water or water/meth injection is also known as 'chemical intercooling' because of the huge effect it has on charge air temperatures in a turbocharged engine.

Now there are also a couple of reasons that you need such a high pressure pump to run an injection system on your diesel. As I stressed at the beginning, you have to inject into your system AFTER the turbo. Spraying the water in before or through the turbo will result in the abrasion of the compressor wheel from all of the water droplets hitting it. Spraying downstream of the turbo under high pressure is necessary to provide a finely atomized spray into the charge air; the finer the mist the better. Keeping the water droplets atomized provides for a better cooling effect and keeps the water in suspension with the air so you don't have large droplets of water rolling along the bottom of your intake tube and dropping into the intake.

Lastly, for the DIY water/meth injection builders out there, you will need to do a little math before you select your spray nozzles lest you be disappointed with your results. Keep in mind when you look at the flow rates for nozzles that just because you have a 100psi (or whatever) water pump, your nozzle(s) will NOT see that much pressure. You will have some small pressure loss depending on your line length and size, but the biggest thing to account for is that you are not spraying water to atmospheric pressure; you are spraying into XXpsi of pressurized air. For example, if you do have a pump rated at 100psi and your engine produces 30psi of boost at full load/WOT, you will only be injecting water at 70psi into the intake stream. If you are building a system for all out power, that 30psi could have a big effect on the volume of water or water/meth that you are injecting.
 

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Don't forget the cleaning!

One other benefit of H2O/meth injection is the cleansing effect. Steam is a powerful cleanser as is so widely stated in midnight infomercials. But steam at over 1000 degrees Fahrenheit, or superheated steam, is a VERY powerful cleanser. Once in my mechanic's shop I saw a BMW 328 6 cylinder head laying on a table. You could see exactly where the cylinders met the head from where the deposits built up except on cylinder 3. It was nearly white with virtually no deposit build up, where the others were all black with clearly visible circles of carbon deposits. The problem with the engine was cracked head at where? You guessed it, cylinder number 3. It had been leaking coolant into number 3 and the coolant (water and alcohol - glycol, not methanol, but alcohol still) of course turned into super heated steam which continually blasted away at the carbon deposits until when the owner finally decided to get it repaired it was in the condition I saw it. H20-meth has the same effect helping to keep the top end of your engine clean.

Also regarding temps, water is fantastic at absorbing heat, so as the piston proceeds downward and the water vapor expands it absorbs large amounts of heat, causing a cooling effect up to hundreds of degrees. So it cools the charge going into the engine and then cools the engine as it expands in the power stroke.

BTW, I have been running a Snow Performance H2O-meth system on my 97 VW Passat TDI for years. It seems to run smoother and quieter and I never top 1250 F even when climbing long steep hills with a 2000lb trailer in 5th gear at 85 MPH at 26 PSI. And remember that is only a 1.9 liter engine.
 

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Theres a good site to explain some of your questions and shows you a basic diagram of how to build your own kit, but since im new i cant post it :S google turbomirage.

I have read on other forums not to use washer fluid since its hard water and all the minerals and what not in it affect your motor and oil, you should only use distilled water. I dont have a 4bt yet but i am in the process of installing "devils own" water meth kit in a 12v. Hope this helps a bit
 

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The methonal in not required except in the winter. The water will evaporate just fine by itself. The methonal is only good to keep your system from freezing. Here in tx I use just water and it works great. I use a pump from harbor freight.
 

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Devils own has single stage for around the 200 dollar mark have good luck with it and no screwing around with mix

match parts bolt up and go..
 

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If you need water injection to keep EGT's under control, then you have a bigger tuning problem. Usually a lack of boost.
 

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If you need water injection to keep EGT's under control, then you have a bigger tuning problem. Usually a lack of boost.
Or lack of funds to obtain said boost.

The meth is an important part of the equation for hp+economy. It evaporates and cools the intake charge, which is muy bueno.
 
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