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Discussion Starter #1
relating to the zf-420 and zf-470...are the outputs the same...
ie: can i swap out the zf-470 in my f-250 for a small block 420 and keep my transfer case? How about drive line length?

the truck currently has a 460 big block...debating the merits of a custom adapter verses finding a used trans and a cummins/ford adapter...and selling un-wanted parts.

thanks...
 

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The S5-42 and S5-47 look very close to each other, they're essentially the same transmission with slight differences. They're likely the same length, but can't say for sure. I have a modular one hear I could measure, but don't have a 460 one to compare.
 

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I THINK(mot sure) the 47 is made only for big blocks and 42 for small blocks, there are a couple threads dedicated to this in the FAQ under ZF 5 speed

Good luck
 

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I THINK(mot sure) the 47 is made only for big blocks and 42 for small blocks, there are a couple threads dedicated to this in the FAQ under ZF 5 speed

Good luck
The ZFS5-47 is larger, I wanted to go with that at 1st before I was told that I didn't have the right adapter (Bellhousing is larger, and as far as I know is one solid piece with the rest of the transmission case), so I went with the SBF ZFS5-42 which i had the right adapter for.

Pantherman
 

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The 47 is just the newer design of the 42. The 47 first came about in the mid 90's behind the 7.3 diesel. The small block/six 42 was not replaced by the 47 because the small blocks and sixes all ceased production in 97. In 98 the new body style superduty's got the modular V8 as the base engine and adopted the 47 behind the 5.4 and V10's and the M5R2 behind the 4.6 V8 in the lighter GVW trucks. In 98 the 7.3 diesel superduty's went to the S6-650 six speed.

There isn't much functional difference between the 42 and 47 in the same bellhousing patterns. I can't verify there is or is not a size difference between the two, but can say by eyeball they look exactly the same size and considering the majority of internal parts interchange there aren't going to be major dimensional differences between the two.
 

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The 47 is just the newer design of the 42. The 47 first came about in the mid 90's behind the 7.3 diesel. The small block/six 42 was not replaced by the 47 because the small blocks and sixes all ceased production in 97. In 98 the new body style superduty's got the modular V8 as the base engine and adopted the 47 behind the 5.4 and V10's and the M5R2 behind the 4.6 V8 in the lighter GVW trucks. In 98 the 7.3 diesel superduty's went to the S6-650 six speed.

There isn't much functional difference between the 42 and 47 in the same bellhousing patterns. I can't verify there is or is not a size difference between the two, but can say by eyeball they look exactly the same size and considering the majority of internal parts interchange there aren't going to be major dimensional differences between the two.
Really? I was told that the only way a ZFS5-47 came was with a larger bell-housing, therefore making it incompatible with the ZFS5-42 bell-housing size (of which I know that the adapter i have will fit).

I was told by multiple sources (in the beginning when I was looking for a manual tranny) that the ZFS5-42 and ZFS5-47 were two different sizes as far as the bell-housing was concerned. They are then indeed the same size?

Pantherman
 

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Discussion Starter #9
thanks for the reply's...i'm mostly concerned with the output on the 4x4 versions of the 420 and 470...the x-case should be a direct swap.the cases are externally very similar...but there might be some differences in the adapters.

length is a secondary issue,and can be accomodated with a little for/aft engine movement upon actual install,thus keeping the trans crossmember in the same spot.likely foreward,as the 470 seems to be a bit longer.
 

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Really? I was told that the only way a ZFS5-47 came was with a larger bell-housing, therefore making it incompatible with the ZFS5-42 bell-housing size (of which I know that the adapter i have will fit).

I was told by multiple sources (in the beginning when I was looking for a manual tranny) that the ZFS5-42 and ZFS5-47 were two different sizes as far as the bell-housing was concerned. They are then indeed the same size?

Pantherman
I'm totally lost here. Ford has a miriad of bell patterns out there. Both transmissions are made in several patterns. What I clearly stated is the 47 and 42 shared the diesel pattern (probably the 460 pattern as well, but never actually seen a 460/47 come through the shop) The 47 was not made in the small block pattern, but was made modular.

If you use terms like "big bellhousing" or "small bellhousing" with Ford applications your setting yourself up for major incompatibility issues because Ford has far more patterns than you can describe with big and small.

To me, the modular pattern is pretty small. It's nearly the same as small block pattern, but the 47 modular ZF's have a larger input shaft than the 42 small block version. If you were creative I'm positive you could bolt a mod pattern 47 up to the small block 4BT adapter.

To clarify further-

Ford has several older patterns that aren't relevant here (Y-block, FE, 5 bolt windsor), but from 80's through current production there are windsor/six/cleveland(small block), 351M/400/370/429/460(385 series), 4.6/5.4/V10(modular pattern) 6.9/7.3 diesel 4 and 5 speed, 7.3 diesel 6 speed and 6.0 diesel.

As you can see that's six different, non-interchangeable bellhousing patterns. "big" and "small" don't work very well to describe them.
 

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Does anybody know the length of a 4wd ZF without a tcase attached?

I need to know if it is shorter than a M5 w/tcase, that combo is too long for my Jeep.
 
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