flywheel

bob is right about using the ford flywheel with the chevy tranny.the mechanic from the bread company wher i buy my trucks told me they have used the ford flywheel with the chevy trans.
how they do this is by installing a spacer in the pilot bearing hole to use the chevy input bearing.then they redrilled the presssure plate bolt holes to match the chevy pressure plate.
to make this work with the difference in thickness of flywheels they used the chevy long throwout bearing.the short chevy throwout bearing is used from the factory.he said it was much easier to get the ford flywheels.
i have one of the flywheels that they modified if someone wants some pics i will be glad to post them.

 

bob is right about using the ford flywheel with the chevy tranny.the mechanic from the bread company wher i buy my trucks told me they have used the ford flywheel with the chevy trans.
how they do this is by installing a spacer in the pilot bearing hole to use the chevy input bearing.then they redrilled the presssure plate bolt holes to match the chevy pressure plate.
to make this work with the difference in thickness of flywheels they used the chevy long throwout bearing.the short chevy throwout bearing is used from the factory.he said it was much easier to get the ford flywheels.
i have one of the flywheels that they modified if someone wants some pics i will be glad to post them.

Yes, please post them. I have wondered about doing something using the Ford flywheel, but this may be the easier option. I was considering flycutting the difference in the thickness from the flywheel adapter, and re drilling the bell housing bolt holes and the dowel holes and just using a Ford pressure plate with a Chevy clutch disc. If it could be done without altering the flywheel adapter, I would prefer to. Haven't checked to see if there is any reason it couldn't be done by flycutting. I don't know why Cummins would have made it the way it was without a reason, but I sure can't figure out what it is. The only thing that comes to mind is that the way they did it, they could use the same housing with the automatic as they could with the stick. At first I thought you could do away with the wave ring as well, but there would be obvious interference with the torque converter where it intexes into the crankshaft.

Doug

 

Could someone give me a tooth count of the ring gear? I need to know tooth count for my Dakota Digital tachometer sensor. When I did my swap, I did it in one week and tried to keep the pace up. I seem to remember 146 teeth.

 

I've read this whole thread and some others, and can't find the dimension I'm looking for....

The following refers to the Ford, or BW, flywheel...

Does anyone have the dimension from the mounting surface of the crankshaft (where the flywheel meets the crankshaft) to the top (or rear) surface of the pilot bearing?

There are a few other ways to describe this distance I'm looking for... one other way would be the "web" thickness of the flywheel in the center, depressed, area (this is the dimension I'm after only if the pilot bearing sits flush with the rear face of the flywheel, which I can't quite figure out from the thread).

I am looking for this distance because I am trying to figure out the ACTUAL distance between the front face of the Ford big-block ZF that I have and the rear face of the 4BT. I already have the Chevy TH400 adapter there, and I am going to design and machine an additional adapter out of .625 or .750 aluminum plate to go between the Chevy adapter and the ZF. I assume I will need to fly-cut the Chevy adapter, but I don't know how much I'll need to remove. The reason I can't yet answer this question for myself is that I do not yet have the Ford flywheel in my possession, but I wanna start designing (and deciding between .625 and .750 plate)

Thanks,
Christian

 

FORD Clutch Set Part # in case anyone needs it

Hi:
So, I found that the Valeo clutch kit #52802003 is the correct set-up for the 4bt with Ford 4-speed manual set-ups.

The kit cost $179.23 and comes with
Clutch
Pressure Plate
Alignment tool
Throwout bearing
Shaft tip bearing

Apparently it is the same set-up found on F-series Ford pickups from 1984-87 with the 6.9L Diesel.

Thx

 

Did anyone actually get the BW flywheel to work with the GM adapter and AA Bellhousing for an NV4550 trans?

BobS, here is un updated link for your post #14 on this thread regarding the 712756 AA Bellhousing http://www.atlas-tc.com/pdf/712/712576.pdf

 

Installing a "Dodge Gasoline 1-1/8" input NV4500 Using the B/W Ford Manual Setup

Theory #2 Installing a "Dodge Gasoline 1-1/8" input NV4500 Using the B/W Ford Manual Setup:

Using the standard shift B/W Ford transmission setup set of parts from the stepvan it may be possible to install a Dodge NV4500 transmission equipped with the smaller 1-1/8" x 10 input shaft which was used in the gasoline version trucks. This input should be a direct swap into any of the Dodge 5.61 first gear ratio transmissions. The trick here would be to use the GM/Chevy SM465 clutch disk in combination with the B/W Ford clutch set and an adapter plate from Advanced Adapters (AA part number 712551). This adapter is a spacer that is around 1" thick and mates the NV4500 mounting pattern to the Ford T19 pattern.

http://www.advanceadapters.com/instructions/712551.pdf
The added 1" length of the NV4500 input shaft should work quite well in taking up the adapter spacer thickness. Some trimming of the transmission input bearing retainer may be required for proper clutch disk hub movement. The transmission input shaft may require a custom pilot bearing in the flywheel when using the Dodge input shaft. The early Chevrolet version NV4500 with the 1-1/8" x 10 input splines is unique only to the early first version GM NV4500 transmissions with the lower first gear and is NOT interchangeable with any of the Dodge versions. The only remaining questionable area is how well the stock Ford clutch release bearing (AKA throw out bearing) fits on the new Dodge input shaft retainer. I don't have one here to compare so you are on your own in this area. Remember this is all "in theory only" at this point.

 

Somebody asked for the hyd set on a T-19 bell housing so here .


BobS ,
When you get the time can you add this to the sticky.

Scott

 

about the mentioned GM 5 spd non overdrive transmission.
I have GM bread truck with sm- 465.
im wondering about putting in this 5 speed.
anyone know if it is the same lenght?
what would I have to do?
how would the gear ratios be affected?
does that trnsmission have a name/#?

 

As I said in your other thread, if it has the same mounting face pattern it is a direct replacement for the SM465 transmission. There were others used in other years that do not have the same mounting pattern. This transmission swap of a 4 speed to a 5 speed was quite common in the 60's & 70's 1 ton trucks.

 

thanks
sorry I started that one cuz I thought it hadnt worked to post here.
which would be the more appropriate to carry on with?

 

I have heard that you can use a dodge flywheel from a 6bt with the adapter that the original th400 connected to. to instead use a sm465?

 

You have heard incorrectly because the ring gears on the flywheels are a different diameter.

 

The ford bellhousing in post 10 looks like smallblock windsor pattern whilst the one in post 11 looks like FE ford pattern... now to find one of those FE ones...

 

tooth count

Could someone give me a tooth count of the ring gear of the Ford flywheel? I need to know tooth count for my Dakota Digital tachometer sensor. When I did my swap, I did it in one week and tried to keep the pace up. I seem to remember 146 teeth.... but can't remember for sure.

 

hey all, just wanted to add to this thread with my experience using a ford flywheel with gm adapter plate and starter on a 4bt with a chevy bellhousing. parts i used to make it work..

15x47x14 sealed bearing (part number 5-4712 from smith co on ebay) as a pilot.
chevy bellhousing 460486 for sm465 (I used ranger overdrive to toyota 4speed)
clutch fork 3765372
mr gasket adjustable clutch arm pivot point to adjust for the thinner flywheel. part number 3885G
I used a toyota clutch slave and master so a low profile clutch from luk. real application unknown since it came from AA as landcruiser SBC swap application. pretty sure an 11" but cant remember the exact bolt pattern. drilled and tapped the flywheel for 6 new holes. machine shop should be able to do pretty cheap as 2 amateurs with the right equipment got it done in about 2 hours. low profile to help compensate for the relatively small travel toyota hydraulic system( i believe).
flywheel bolted right in place of chevy flexplate and starter worked with no mod.
YMMV
:beer:

 

BobS states that there is a .518 thickness difference between Ford and Chevy flywheels and the possibility of the same clutch pattern. I have some chevy flywheels and would like to use the xtra mass in my ford setup. So would having a .518 spacer machined allow me to use this flywheel? I realize the input bearing issue, no biggy. One day I will bolt up ford/chevy/sae2/sae3 FH adapters(dont have dodge stuff at all) and various flywheels and various transmissions and take a bunch of pictures. Wonder if Lakewood makes a bellhousing that would incorporate several different transmission possibilities? Thinking out loud, sorry.

 

BobS i have a 4bt flywheel cast part #306613 ,jt is 1.830 thick and will only work with a 11" clutch, i've read conflicting threads ,is this a chevy or ford flywheel ,THANKS in advance for any info on this matter , im trying to move forward with this swap and get it don before thanksgiving weekend

 

Check this out and see if it helps. http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?24250-Clutch-info

 

its steering me in the right direction , Thanks ky-donzi, the only other thing throwing me off is a thread on here about using a ADVANCE ADAPTERS NV4500 bellhousings ,wich is what i have on my 1993 chevy nv4500, im hoping that in a couple weeks after i get my injectors back from TENN. DIESEL i will have all the parts i need to get started on removing that Anemic GM 6.2L turbodiesel, thanks to everyone for all the info and input

 

The Borg-Warner flywheel measured out to 1.312 inches. The GM version measures out to 1.830 inches. This means the GM version is .518 inches thicker. The pilot bearing bores are also different. The Borg-Warner uses a 6303 double plastic sealed non relube type bearing. The GM version uses a 6302 double plastic sealed non relube type bearing.

The GM SM-465 is casting number 3913055; the Borg Warner T-19 version has the casting number 3906613.

You can't take one instance as gospel. My 4B came w/a T-19 and my FW is 3906613 and is ~1.8" thick. It is causing me great pains in setting up the hydraulic clutch. Here's the rest of my junk

Bell Housing – Ford, E4TA-7505-DA
Release Arm - Ford, E4TA-7515-DA
Master Cylinder - Wilwood, 7/8”
Slave Cylinder - Novak, 7/8”
Clutch - Valeo, AMC-03
Pressure Plate - Valeo, AM-54
Pilot Bearing – 6303
Throwout Bearing – FM, 1625


The rod is buried too far in the slave.

 

One 5 speed direct trans that is a good replacement for 465's is the NP-540 series, they come with long and short input shafts, so make sure the correct one is gotten. Al top cover, 4 shift rails. Looks just like a 435, but one more shift rail.

 

Pilot bearing information


The 89-93 Dodge Cummins flywheel uses a NATIONAL PB286HD Heavy Duty; Bore=0.753", Outer Diameter=0.941", Width=0.88" and is a bronze insert oilite style bushing.

The 94-up uses a NATIONAL SCE1211 Needle Bearing; Bore=0.75", Outer Diameter=1", Width=0.6874" which is a needle bearing. Note the outside diameter is larger than the 89-93 version.

A ZF series behind a big block 460 (in 89) used a NATIONAL FC66067 Needle Bearing; Bore=0.6733", Outer Diameter=1.8525", Width=0.67" Note the bore is 0.673" which is what fits the pilot tip of the transmission.

*** A 79 Ford F350 w/460 manual transmission used a similar bearing as the 89-93 Dodge. This was a NATIONAL PB50DHD Bushing; Bore=0.67", Outer Diameter=1.8535", Width=0.505 This bronze insert oilite bearing/bushing could be machined down to fit either of the Dodge Cummins flywheels.

 

The GM SM-465 and the Borg Warner T-19 setup engine adapters both use the same starter and starter spacer. This spacer is 16 mm thick and provides the correct depth for the starter pinion and the ring gear on the flywheel to mesh properly. This same spacer is also used with the GM TH-400/475 transmission.