[twiisted71]

Are you reading the same things I am??? You are talking about having to buy a GM/Cummins adapter AND then shellout over $500 for another adapter to be able to use a POS IH T-19!!!! with NO OD!!! That is the kind of stuff I mean when I say you need to really evaluate what is possible. There is NO way I'd personally spend that kind of money to find myself gear bound by a 1:1 top gear with a "rare" trans that upgrading from very likely would require changing everything. Clutches aren't cheap and neither are TCs when you have to buy them twice over the life of a project vehicle just due to design changes!

That NV3500 is exactly what we PM'd about. Just look into getting a pass drop TC for it before you jump.

 

[clhman]

I guess I look at it as a lot cheaper than a NV4500. Maybe I'm not thinking it through right. I see it as I need to buy the engine adapter either way. (Which I could reuse if I dumped the t19 later) Then I buy the $100 trans and $500 adapter, so then I have a $600 trans. NV4500's are easily over a grand. Wouldn't I be ahead of the game?

I have a couple more junkyards to to call today that I couldn't get a hold of yesterday. Maybe I'll get lucky.

I mentioned that NV3500 because you PM'd me about it. It would be the same deal though. $100 trans, then $300-500 to rebuild it, plus the axles, plus a new TC. Seems like it would be more to go this way over the POS t19? Am I looking at this wrong?

 

[eggman918]

If you want a nv4500 I "think" the most cost effective way to go is as Twisted said earlier Buy a 1st gen dodge take from the adapter back as far as you need and part out/scrap the rest,with a little luck you might not end up out of pocket. During my build I bought a 77 Highboy for parts paid to have it shipped 300 miles used the disc 44 front and the 205 T case and sold the rest, I spent 2 weeks doing it but I made $200. on the deal to put into the project.On a side note the only cost that matters in this is what you have spent when it's on the road dont let 1 good deal cost you big in the long run,keep your head on a swivel and the BIG picture in mind you will be ahead in both time and money in the long run.
Steve.

 

[clhman]

That's still on the radar. The biggest junkyard up here didn't have any 90's dodges in the yard. I'm still trying to play that angle. I guess I'm starting to see that the selection up here isn't that great. I'd personally love to go that route as it will be complete, proven and designed that way. In my view, I now have an option with the T19. Now I'll try to find a better option. Everywhere I've called I ask them about a list of things: G360, NV4500, ZF5 etc...

Thanks for your help with this.

 

[eggman918]

Location does affect things I'm in the middle of CA. and have driven to San Diego twice, LA. twice and Frisco once for things I needed at the right price and took it for granted.
You might try the insurance Co's and see about salvage vehicles??a new area to hunt.
The M5odR2 is more common than the ZF and it has better gear spacing for the 4BT but 1st is ~4.00-1,Lonno and I are both running on in our CrewCabs and lonno's runnung twins.
Good luck,
Steve.

 

[twiisted71]

I guess I look at it as a lot cheaper than a NV4500. Maybe I'm not thinking it through right. I see it as I need to buy the engine adapter either way. (Which I could reuse if I dumped the t19 later) Then I buy the $100 trans and $500 adapter, so then I have a $600 trans. NV4500's are easily over a grand. Wouldn't I be ahead of the game?

You would be ahead money-wise RIGHTNOW. But you'd have $600 tied up into something no one else will ever want should you decide to go with an OD! For $600 you can usually pick up a Ford ZF5 or even cheaper you could get a M5R2 from an F150! GM vs Fprd adapters are usually a wash $$wise. Then you'd just need an adapter to any pass drop TC you choose. Hit up Advanced Adapter for their offerings on that front. You'd gain a plenty stout 5 speed OD trans for a Scout and in demand components that if you ever decided to do something different you can easily get your money back to apply to your next adventure! Instead of "spending" $600 you could be "stashing" $600 and be getting more useful parts. Keep in mind if you can find a set of driver's side drop axles (Grand Wagoneer for example) for a couple hundred dollars like you found the Scout units, that could offset the cost of the Pass drop TC adapter and you could just run a complete Ford trans TC assembly which you can usually get for the same price or just a little more than the transmission alone!
If this is something you have absolutely no interest in doing then I understand and will quit trying to point you towards the better overall deal from my standpoint. I've been at this for a long time and take a longer outlook at this type of thing than just a right now build. That can often times skew my advice. But even a right now build should result in the best overall end result you can manage, it will impact your satisfaction with the effort much more than you may think. Lots of people will do a build thinking with a gasser mindset but not realizing how much more RPM sensitive diesels are, and the need for proper final gearing as well as a good selection of gears to get you up to it! While GM may have been able to build cars with a 2 speed powerglide, it wouldn't have worked well in a truck that was going to be used as such and would have been less than useless behind a diesel. Car manufacturers are now beginning to realize that with more gears they can use smaller hp engines thus the recent advent of 6+ speeds becoming the norm.
That $100 NV3500 may be a very good option for you. Check out all the things you can do with it and the costs involved, though.

 

[twiisted71]

If you want a nv4500 I "think" the most cost effective way to go is as Twisted said earlier Buy a 1st gen dodge
Steve.

FYI 1st Gens didn't come with an NV4500. They used a Getrag 360. Some poo-poo them. I've personally driven them and used them in work trucks too. They held up just fine to absurd loads that NONE of the gassers in the fleet could touch. Everyone there knew how to drive though and no one was dumb enough to try to use OD with heavy loads. All of those trucks were stock 160HP/400tq 6BTs. My favorite one of them I liked to show people who asked about the Cummins was a 2wd that had a round (cylindrical) fuel tank set in its bed that was just a bit taller than the cab but it had "formed" the wheelwells and upper bed sides to its shape when sat in place! It was about 8' long since it stuck off the bed just a tad. That truck went around riding with the frame on the axle most of the time! The bumpstops were long gone and the welders had put 3/4" plates on the frame and on the axle and a piece of tire tread from something big bolted to the frame for a little cushion. It was relegated to this duty after having served its time as an equipment trailer hauler for long enough to have hit the 200K mark at least and a crew hauler until the interior was completely shot. I don't know how many miles it had since the windows no longer worked and the instrument cluster was covered with dust/mud from living at work sites 24/7 with the windows down! But she still shifted fine and the clutch worked when I quit that job. I asked a guy about it years later and he busted out lauging saying they did some figuring and determined that that truck hadn't had an oil change or any other maintenance than adding fluids as needed in over 5 years when it was sold in a batch of equipment!

 

[clhman]

If this is something you have absolutely no interest in doing then I understand and will quit trying to point you towards the better overall deal from my standpoint.

Definitely need the advice. Keep the advice coming. My posts are simply me 'thinking out loud'. They may seem random, but I guess I'm just looking for feedback. As my first motor swap I don't want to goof around and cut corners and waste a ton of time and money, just to end up with a mediocre finished product. To me, the money and availability of parts is going to make the decision. In the meantime, I appreciate your patience while I work through this.

Also, I saw online that the NV3500 is extremely difficult to rebuild. Any truth to that...?

 

[clhman]

Yeah I understand the differences between 1st and 2nd gen G360 v NV4500. Only one out there now. Way too expensive to make work in my opinion...

http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4358634016.html

 

[twiisted71]

Couldn't tell you. Do you KNOW the trans in question needs a rebuild? If so perhaps having a shop tackle it would be money well spent. Remember buying anything used is a gamble. There is nothing stating that used NV4500 for $1K is going to last a week or a lifetime! That is why I personally find the used prices on them absurd. I would much quicker spend couple hundred on a more plentiful used Ford M5R2 or a little more on a ZF, taking the chance it may need a rebuild. Only if I absolutely needed that cast iron unit would I spend the amounts they seem to command down here. Once you get to a certain price (yours would be different from mine) it will make more sense to buy a rebuilt unit instead of a used one. To me when a used 4500 is roughly the same price as a rebuilt M5R2 with a warranty and I don't need a granny gear and would be better served by the car-like shift feel and better diesel friendly gear spacing- I'm going with the M5 piece! However some people like to say they have a 4500 in their Jeep riding on 33s still powered by the 4.0 gasser! Different strokes!

 

[twiisted71]

Yeah I understand the differences between 1st and 2nd gen G360 v NV4500. Only one out there now. Way too expensive to make work in my opinion...

http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4358634016.html

Wow a bit steep but you may be able to bargain with him. $3800 could let you just pull the dodge body, cut the frame to the proper wheelbase, set your Scout body in place and be done! Plus you'd have a 6BT with only 200K to sell along with the body and all the Scout chassis and the IH T-19 etc you'd accumulated. Plus you'd be able to come in WAY under your august deadline---just a thought. Some modern offset wheels will pull the with of the fullsize axles back under the Scout considerably!

 

[eggman918]

" Some modern offset wheels will pull the with of the fullsize axles back under the Scout considerably!"
What about a set of the military bead locks they might work ideal there.

 

[clhman]

Wow a bit steep but you may be able to bargain with him. $3800 could let you just pull the dodge body, cut the frame to the proper wheelbase, set your Scout body in place and be done! Plus you'd have a 6BT with only 200K to sell along with the body and all the Scout chassis and the IH T-19 etc you'd accumulated. Plus you'd be able to come in WAY under your august deadline---just a thought. Some modern offset wheels will pull the with of the fullsize axles back under the Scout considerably!

You're killing me!!!!! Remember I wanted to do less work, not more

Still a viable option though. Thanks.

 

[clhman]

Couldn't tell you. Do you KNOW the trans in question needs a rebuild?

The ad says a bearing is out, which normally translates to "It needs a lot of work."

 

[clhman]

Not familiar with the M5R2. I'll start researching it.

 

[twiisted71]

You're killing me!!!!! Remember I wanted to do less work, not more

Still a viable option though. Thanks.

LOL Seems like more but sometimes it can actually be a lot less to undo some wiring harnesses and cut a dozen body mounts loose just to get etter access to work on pulling an engine/trans combo. In your case you'd already be quite a ways into dropping your body onto a ready to run rolling chassis!
At this point I wish I had followed my own advice but I never intended for my build to get this crazy! I was going to keep it early Bronco/CJ7 sized, since I had so much HD stuff in that size. But..............

You on the other hand....are truthfully starting out with stuff I'd consider rated for the Nissan diesel Scouts came with up to a lightly warmed MB 2.5-3.0L diesel conversion. Since you are claiming a DD use with smaller tires the 4BT may not kill'em too quick!

 

[clhman]

Called the yards-

G360 by itself with exchange: $1800 Ouch!!!!!

No NV4500

He did have a '94 ZF5 with a transfer case sitting in the yard in an F-150. Not sure if it's pass drop. $750 trans; $400 t-case on back

The T19 combo is looking better every second. Still have my eyes peeled though...

 

[twiisted71]

Called the yards-

G360 by itself with exchange: $1800 Ouch!!!!!

No NV4500

He did have a '94 ZF5 with a transfer case sitting in the yard in an F-150. Not sure if it's pass drop. $750 trans; $400 t-case on back

The T19 combo is looking better every second. Still have my eyes peeled though...

That's absolutely out of bounds absurd on a G360!! Don't go near that yard.

Same with the yard that has a ZF in an F150! NEVER came that way that I've seen or heard of in the states.. ALL 5 speed F150s AFAIK came with M5R2 and $750 for a used F150 trans of any kind is CRAZY!! let alone $400 for an aluminum run of the mill BW TC!!!

I don't know what AK is like but as a young guy just starting out I had my best luck spending my afternoons and weekends just riding around looking for old stuff parked in the weeds behind people's houses, and knocking on doors. If you find a nice older guy don't be afraid to ask him to point you to others with similar stuff. Also tell them what you are up to. I got in good with a couple of yard owners as well as a few old timers that just had several "parts" trucks from their days of wrenching. Also yards tend to deal more in person, esp if you show up with tools and an eager personality. But $1800 for a Getrag!:happyfinger: is what I'd have had a hard time choking back! I know shipping won't work for you but check out Ebay pricing on M5R2s and even G360s!

Your locale may very well force you to go with your initial plan.

That kind of absurdity would drive ME straight o that 1st gen Cummins truck. I'd then sell my scrap to the jerk with the crazy prices-make him help pay for my rig and take my junk off my hands!

 

[eggman918]

"That kind of absurdity would drive ME straight o that 1st gen Cummins truck. I'd then sell my scrap to the jerk with the crazy prices-make him help pay for my rig and take my junk off my hands!"


Wise words.....

 

[clhman]

What about this...? Strong enough? Didn't know which M5 was in there?

http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4329339660.html

Didn't say 4x4 or not. Most up here are 4x4. Rare to find 4x2.