Just curious. That's what I've got. Wondering if they will marry...
If so, can you provide pics or part #'s?
If so, can you provide pics or part #'s?
Anyone using a T19 with a Sae 2 adapter?
1 reading
clhman
21 - 40 of 72 Posts
Joined
·
711 Posts
I know, I know. I'm hard headed. I am just not wanting to bite off more than I can chew on my first build. I consider myself a fairly decent shade tree mechanic, but I also am doing this alone, so I don't have an expert looking over my shoulder.
The axles in question are from a Scout II, so theoretically would they just bolt on? I don't want to worry about caster or spacing or anything like that...
Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
The axles in question are from a Scout II, so theoretically would they just bolt on? I don't want to worry about caster or spacing or anything like that...
Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
Joined
·
3,086 Posts
Measure the spring pad placement on your axles and on those to remove all doubt but if the frame widthh specs are the same then they "should" bolt right in!! That would be a NO brainer!!!! Were talking a 1 day job with new U bolts and a reciprocating saw to just cut the old ones loose! I thought you were talking about some Waggy axles. If they are Scout stuff you really should check them out!
Joined
·
711 Posts
I give! I'm crying Uncle! I'll buy the 3.54 axles. I'm convinced. Now I need to decide on the drivetrain. I'd love to go Dodge from rear main to transfer case. That way I won't have to worry about adapters or anything else. Thanks for your persistence.
Joined
·
3,086 Posts
Noooooo! don't buy it because of anything said on this site! I'm just trying to tell you to check EVERYTHING you have the opportunity to. THEN and ONLY then decide which way to jump. Once you get so far into a pathway you will lose the economic ability for it to make sense to change directions-you can be forced to buy expensive parts because they are necessary to finish the task but you have too much $$ or time invested in the other parts to say you want a different side differential or you wand an OD trans but you've spent a load on custom parts to put a rare IH trans in that NO one else will ever buy off you but No other trannys will mate to it without MORE cu$tom work.
You are about to embark on a large process. All any of us want is for you to actually finish it and once done be happy with all the labor and money spent.
Joined
·
711 Posts
Why? This is what you guys talk about day in and day out. You guys have a heck of a lot more knowledge about the subject than I'll ever have. My buddy did bring up a good point in that I will have another gear to play with. I can better keep the motor in the sweat spot. I spent most of yesterday lost in the land of ZF5's, G360's and NV4500's. Ugh. Trying to get an education on what is best in the meantime.
Joined
·
2,107 Posts
Why? Because you (and in many instances, myself) do not have enough experience to sort out who really knows their "STUFF" and who is pulling answers out of their "AXIS-OF-ROTATION". In most instances, the best solution depends on the application, ie FUEL SIPPING COMMUTER or GNARLY TRAIL RIG or PULLING RIG, etc
Joined
·
711 Posts
I agree. I've read a bazillion threads on here. There are quite a few that full of a lot of hot air. When a member gives advice, I look for their build thread. There I can decide if they have any 'street-cred'. If they don't have a build thread or the experience to back it up, I'll take it with a grain of salt. Twiisted has given a lot of advice so far, and to me it looks like he knows what he is talking about. That's the greatest thing about this forum is that there is a huge collection of knowledge about this particular subject.
Joined
·
3,086 Posts
Please understand the "advice" I'm trying to impart is for you to really research what parts are "possible" to use, not just the oddball stuff you have. There is a reason they aren't sought after and used in lots of swaps. You can very well come out money ahead and with stronger and easier to source parts. One of my favorite combinations to recommend is a set of first Gen Dodge Dana 61/71 axles with 3.07 gearing to use with a non OD tranny. They are a good strong option and are usually dirt cheap as hardly anyone can use a 3.07 on a "built rig". But they would be great in a lightweight diesel swap project without OD. So for folks on a strict budget that cant afford to buy a $1000+ NV4500 they could keep the 4 speed that came on their engine and put in a divorced TC or pick up a CHEAP 4 speed since hardly anyone wants them anymore-everyone thinks the NV4500 is the only trans worth having anymore.
I don't know it all-far from it. I have built or modded quite a few different types of vehicles. I have made quite a few of the mistakes that I try to warn folks off of. I always try to give advice to get what the OP wants the cheapest and/or easiest route.
No one can tell anyone else the best path for them to take. We all have different value on vehicle's specs, needs, wants, economy, power, speed, off-road/on-road capability, strength, cost of the build, show quality vs utility, etc. Then there is the resources local to the OP that can greatly affect the price of used parts, combined with the OP's skill level and amount of work they can/intend to do themselves.
Sometimes it just makes TOO much sense to look into a great deal on a part even if you already have something on your rig-esp if the parts in question can offer even the slightest improvement to your end product. It may not seem like it but a .5 change in final ratio can be the difference between your engine being in its powerband or struggling or being far enough over it to begin taking a significant mpg hit. if your parts need rebuilding anyway it won't cost much more in the grand scheme many times to rebuild with stronger or better suited parts! You have to have a game plan laid out though along with all the options you could use if they fell into your lap!
That is the advice I was trying to give to you.
Joined
·
711 Posts
Here are my cards on the table...
I'm a black and white kind of guy. If you give me something to fix, I'll take it apart and teach myself how to fix it. When it comes to this, I'm struggling. There is no right or wrong answer. There are many variables and I don't want to make the wrong decision. I will list what I have and then what options I've been mulling over and maybe you guys can help sway me in one direction over another. I want a vehicle that will be reliable and something that I can fix myself. I don't need to tow with it as I have a 6.7 Powerstoke that does that job now. I may what to plow with it. I want to keep that option open. I want it to have enough power for it to get out of its own way. Not sure what hp that will leave me with. 180-200hp maybe? I got a P-pump so I could have more options. That will come after final install.
I also am not looking for a 2 year drawn out swap. I'd like to have it together under its own power by Aug 31st. It's not going to be a trailer queen, just a reliable, good vehicle.
What I Have:
2000 MT45 Bread Van, CPL 1839, Sae 2 Eaton 5 speed non OD 2WD trans - paid $3500. I plan to strip it and sell anything I can to recoup some money.
The motor runs strong and so far I think I'm just going to re-gasket it, KDP and a 3 or 4K GSK before installation.
1980 Scout II 100" wb (no chance for a divorced set-up)
304ci gas (going to sell)
727 trans (that I can't use behind a diesel)
Dana 44 pass drop 2.72
Dana 44 limited slip 2.72
I will need to lift it at least 2.5" to clear the motor.
I would like to run 32x11.50x15's
Access to a $100 IH T19 trans
Access to D44's with 3.54's, not sure if limited slip $200 for pair
Here is what I see:
1. Use a T19 that will bolt directly to my Dana 300. Figure out an adapter to marry it to the engine. Maybe I can get a Ford bell housing for it?
Cost: $100 for trans, maybe $500-800 for adapter, clutch, pressure plate, starter, etc.
Pros: Easy (outside of the adapter), could reuse some parts. Keep axles and xfer case.
Cons: According to Grimjeeper calculator, at idle in 1st gear, I'm at 7mph. I could always plow in low, but it sounds like low end will suffer. Not as much versatility with gears on the low end.
2. Junk everything. I have access to a pair of 3.54 Scout II Dana 44's that should be bolt on. Then I'm in the market for a 5 speed OD trans. Maybe buy a ZF, but then I'd need to find a pass drop xfer case that would work for me. Sounds like that could be difficult. If I bought a NV4500 with a 205, then it would be easy, but it sounds like it would be fairly costly.
Cost: Could be $1500 by the time I get a NV4500, 205 and all the fixings.
Pros: Proven formula that works.
Cons: Cost. Add in the axles and misc overruns and I could top $2000.
3. Original idea. Run a 47rh with my tail housing and my D 300, should work. Keep my gears, shifter, etc.
Cost: Maybe $1000
Pros: Don't have to hang a clutch pedal, master cylinder, slave cylinder, etc. Could reuse proven D300 case.
Cons: Worried that it will be a dog with that trans. Not as much fun to drive.
In the end, I want to make the right decision to make a bulletproof drivetrain that will suit my needs. I'd like to keep it cheap, but I also don't want to cut corners and do things I regret in the long run.
Help! I'm frustrated and torn between these 3 choices. I've read until my eyes are ready to bleed and I just can't arrive at a decision that will work for me. Seems like there is just not a good answer.
I'm a black and white kind of guy. If you give me something to fix, I'll take it apart and teach myself how to fix it. When it comes to this, I'm struggling. There is no right or wrong answer. There are many variables and I don't want to make the wrong decision. I will list what I have and then what options I've been mulling over and maybe you guys can help sway me in one direction over another. I want a vehicle that will be reliable and something that I can fix myself. I don't need to tow with it as I have a 6.7 Powerstoke that does that job now. I may what to plow with it. I want to keep that option open. I want it to have enough power for it to get out of its own way. Not sure what hp that will leave me with. 180-200hp maybe? I got a P-pump so I could have more options. That will come after final install.
I also am not looking for a 2 year drawn out swap. I'd like to have it together under its own power by Aug 31st. It's not going to be a trailer queen, just a reliable, good vehicle.
What I Have:
2000 MT45 Bread Van, CPL 1839, Sae 2 Eaton 5 speed non OD 2WD trans - paid $3500. I plan to strip it and sell anything I can to recoup some money.
The motor runs strong and so far I think I'm just going to re-gasket it, KDP and a 3 or 4K GSK before installation.
1980 Scout II 100" wb (no chance for a divorced set-up)
304ci gas (going to sell)
727 trans (that I can't use behind a diesel)
Dana 44 pass drop 2.72
Dana 44 limited slip 2.72
I will need to lift it at least 2.5" to clear the motor.
I would like to run 32x11.50x15's
Access to a $100 IH T19 trans
Access to D44's with 3.54's, not sure if limited slip $200 for pair
Here is what I see:
1. Use a T19 that will bolt directly to my Dana 300. Figure out an adapter to marry it to the engine. Maybe I can get a Ford bell housing for it?
Cost: $100 for trans, maybe $500-800 for adapter, clutch, pressure plate, starter, etc.
Pros: Easy (outside of the adapter), could reuse some parts. Keep axles and xfer case.
Cons: According to Grimjeeper calculator, at idle in 1st gear, I'm at 7mph. I could always plow in low, but it sounds like low end will suffer. Not as much versatility with gears on the low end.
2. Junk everything. I have access to a pair of 3.54 Scout II Dana 44's that should be bolt on. Then I'm in the market for a 5 speed OD trans. Maybe buy a ZF, but then I'd need to find a pass drop xfer case that would work for me. Sounds like that could be difficult. If I bought a NV4500 with a 205, then it would be easy, but it sounds like it would be fairly costly.
Cost: Could be $1500 by the time I get a NV4500, 205 and all the fixings.
Pros: Proven formula that works.
Cons: Cost. Add in the axles and misc overruns and I could top $2000.
3. Original idea. Run a 47rh with my tail housing and my D 300, should work. Keep my gears, shifter, etc.
Cost: Maybe $1000
Pros: Don't have to hang a clutch pedal, master cylinder, slave cylinder, etc. Could reuse proven D300 case.
Cons: Worried that it will be a dog with that trans. Not as much fun to drive.
In the end, I want to make the right decision to make a bulletproof drivetrain that will suit my needs. I'd like to keep it cheap, but I also don't want to cut corners and do things I regret in the long run.
Help! I'm frustrated and torn between these 3 choices. I've read until my eyes are ready to bleed and I just can't arrive at a decision that will work for me. Seems like there is just not a good answer.
Look at what 1952b3b23 is doing with a ranger OD. You might not have the wheelbase to do this but it only adds 7" to the t19 and gives you a 8sp trans. I have one and like it because I had a sm465/np205 that was verified good, so this was a good route for me
May make option #4 lol
May make option #4 lol
Joined
·
2,999 Posts
If you go with a Ford trans the round 6 bolt pattern gives you a large range of T-cases that will bolt to it and output/input shaft options are there but I cant detail them from memory but before I settled on the divorced 203/205 i found that most any thing was possible a lot of it with stock parts.....That's just what you wanted to hear I'm sure MORE research
Steve.
Steve.
Joined
·
3,086 Posts
!st gen Dodges had a Getrag 5 speed OD with a pass side drop t-case. If you can find an '89-93 Dodge Cummins Diesel you could scavenge the adapter plate through to the TC output yokes! grab those cheap scout axles and you are in business!
Also something for you to remember is you can drive a 5 speed without using OD. It will not behave any differently than a straight 4 speed! If you can find one at a good price and put a GM/Dodge pass side TC to it you can keep your stock high speed Scout axles you already own. You could then install those 3.54 geared Scout II axles next summer if you wanted to. Bu believe me its a lot easier to set up your powertrain right the first time. This is even more true with these swaps since everything has to have an adapter plate to be installed-there is NO engine that can bolt directly to a Cummins 3.9-5.9 B series engine. The adapters can and usually are very expensive so its important to think ahead if you already think you may want to make other improvements to your project later on. Try to figure out a way to either get the right transmission right the first time OR pick an adapter that will allow you to swap on the trans you ultimately think you want next go 'round!
You seem to want to stick with a pass drop front axle so you should sit down and research all the transfercases that are strong enough with pass drop. Then figure out what transmissions came stock with them Then figure out what transmissions can be adapted to them and the cost of those adapters.
The reason for this is you may be able to get a Ford adapter with a Jeep Dana 300, a Ford SBF ZF5, and an adapter to mate the ZF ad 300 for less than a GM NV3500, GM adapter, and a GM pass drop TC or a Dodge 1st gen assembly like I described above.
Another option would be to get a set of Grand Wagoneer Dana 44 axles with a driver's side drop and that would open up the ability to use newer Ford and Dodge trans/TC combos as is! I think (not sure on this one) that post '91 GM 4x4s had driver's side drop TCs as well. Those GW axles can usually be gotten pretty cheap and tend to be in ready to run condition since most GWs were grocery getters or around town soccer mom mobiles!
If you manage to get enough other pieces cheap enough and come in far enough under budget you could just spring for a custom TC that could be oriented any way you need!
Also "3200 spring before installation" That is a rotary pump upgrade. P-pumps generally have a 3 or 4 K GSK. Again this falls into that research what is possible for what you have. Knowing these things will greatly improve your decision making ability.
Also something for you to remember is you can drive a 5 speed without using OD. It will not behave any differently than a straight 4 speed! If you can find one at a good price and put a GM/Dodge pass side TC to it you can keep your stock high speed Scout axles you already own. You could then install those 3.54 geared Scout II axles next summer if you wanted to. Bu believe me its a lot easier to set up your powertrain right the first time. This is even more true with these swaps since everything has to have an adapter plate to be installed-there is NO engine that can bolt directly to a Cummins 3.9-5.9 B series engine. The adapters can and usually are very expensive so its important to think ahead if you already think you may want to make other improvements to your project later on. Try to figure out a way to either get the right transmission right the first time OR pick an adapter that will allow you to swap on the trans you ultimately think you want next go 'round!
You seem to want to stick with a pass drop front axle so you should sit down and research all the transfercases that are strong enough with pass drop. Then figure out what transmissions came stock with them Then figure out what transmissions can be adapted to them and the cost of those adapters.
The reason for this is you may be able to get a Ford adapter with a Jeep Dana 300, a Ford SBF ZF5, and an adapter to mate the ZF ad 300 for less than a GM NV3500, GM adapter, and a GM pass drop TC or a Dodge 1st gen assembly like I described above.
Another option would be to get a set of Grand Wagoneer Dana 44 axles with a driver's side drop and that would open up the ability to use newer Ford and Dodge trans/TC combos as is! I think (not sure on this one) that post '91 GM 4x4s had driver's side drop TCs as well. Those GW axles can usually be gotten pretty cheap and tend to be in ready to run condition since most GWs were grocery getters or around town soccer mom mobiles!
If you manage to get enough other pieces cheap enough and come in far enough under budget you could just spring for a custom TC that could be oriented any way you need!
Also "3200 spring before installation" That is a rotary pump upgrade. P-pumps generally have a 3 or 4 K GSK. Again this falls into that research what is possible for what you have. Knowing these things will greatly improve your decision making ability.
Joined
·
711 Posts
I'm guilty there. All I know so far is that it is easier to do with the motor out, so I'll research that further soon.
Joined
·
711 Posts
Called around today. No junked out Rams in my area now. No luck there.
The Ranger OD sounds cool, but twin stick is probably not as practical as I'd like. It would definitely peg out the cool-meter, but probably not friendly for the wife to drive.
I think I'm going to look into a Ford bell housing for that T19. Maybe I'll get lucky. They seem common.
The Ranger OD sounds cool, but twin stick is probably not as practical as I'd like. It would definitely peg out the cool-meter, but probably not friendly for the wife to drive.
I think I'm going to look into a Ford bell housing for that T19. Maybe I'll get lucky. They seem common.
Joined
·
3,086 Posts
Have you satisfied yourself that the Ford smallblock V8 bellhousing uses the same bellhousing/trans dimensions as the IH Scout T-19 along with the Scout T-19's input shaft being identical to the Ford? In other words is the IH T-19 the same as the Ford T-19 at the front?
So far as that OD unit....you do realize that you don't HAVE to use it all the time, right? You could just shift it when you wanted OD! That is all you'd need anyway. It could even be setup with a solenoid actuator and a push-button! I'm afraid wheelbase might be a problem for ya.
So far as that OD unit....you do realize that you don't HAVE to use it all the time, right? You could just shift it when you wanted OD! That is all you'd need anyway. It could even be setup with a solenoid actuator and a push-button! I'm afraid wheelbase might be a problem for ya.
Joined
·
711 Posts
I don't know about the differences between a Ford and IH T19 yet. I have a pending post on the Scout forum that I belong to. We'll see what they say...
I know I wouldn't have to shift the OD all the time. I've heard about the push-button actuation. That would be cool. You are right though. I know that they are only 7" long, but I just don't think I have the room with my wb.
I know I wouldn't have to shift the OD all the time. I've heard about the push-button actuation. That would be cool. You are right though. I know that they are only 7" long, but I just don't think I have the room with my wb.
Twisted... I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the IHC and FMC T19 trans are different
https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t18_t19.htm
http://www.atlas-tc.com/pdf/712/712531.pdf
https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t18_t19.htm
http://www.atlas-tc.com/pdf/712/712531.pdf
Joined
·
711 Posts
ky-donzi, thanks. It looks like you confirmed that I can use the IH t19 that I'm referring to. Advance Adapters has this one for $522:
http://www.advanceadapters.com/products/712530--chevy-v8-to-scout-t18--t19-transmission-adapter-kit/
They show the GM kit only and not the Ford version that you added the link to. If I got that one, it looks like I'd be in business with a GM adapter and bell housing. Looks like a confirmed possibility.
http://www.advanceadapters.com/products/712530--chevy-v8-to-scout-t18--t19-transmission-adapter-kit/
They show the GM kit only and not the Ford version that you added the link to. If I got that one, it looks like I'd be in business with a GM adapter and bell housing. Looks like a confirmed possibility.
Joined
·
711 Posts
What about this? That could probably work. I'd rebuild it...
http://anchorage.craigslist.org/pts/4295685963.html
http://anchorage.craigslist.org/pts/4295685963.html
21 - 40 of 72 Posts
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
