[Dougal]

The Chrysler 727 used in the IH Scout (and other IH applications), has the starter located on the passenger's side, to accomodate the GM starters they used. It also allowed better clearance in the engine compartment. The Dodge version has the starter on the driver's side. Kinda looks like an IH one in that pict, but it's a bit hard to make see. FYI, FWIW. :beer:

Yep the starter fits on the RH side of my one. Definitely IH style.
Were they used or fitted to anything else? Do they have similar internals to the Dodge/Chrysler 727's?

They were only used from about 1983-1985 in the rangerovers, after that they went to a ZF 4speed (HP22) for the autos.

 

[Wyle E. Coyote]

Yes, the internals of the IH 727 were exactly the same as Dodge. The only differences are the starter location and the bolt pattern. It is IH specific. If it wasn't I'd have already dropped in one of my 440's. :grinpimp:

I dunno if they were ever fitted to any other engines. Until I got my Scout I would have said definately no. But now I wouldn't be so quick to say that. There could be others out there with one, I dunno. But because they used adapters for your Rover, who knows where else you might find one?

 

[coog]

Tf 727

A bit of arcane info that might be of interest to swappers is that I have been told that the TF 727 will bolt up to a Mitsubishi diesel, as found in the Fuso series.I have seen a factory Dodge pickup with a Mitsubishi 6 bolted to the chrysler auto w/o an adapter.
Back to the Isuzu b/h thread. I have a wide collection of these things, but I have recently moved cross - country so I can't verify my belief that the flywheel cover off a 4bd1 (or 4bd1t) and the cover off a 6bd1 are interchangeable.If this is true, one would need only find the cover off the 6 to give you a SAE3 pattern for your 4 cylinder.I am in the midst of a swap using the kit from isuzudieselswappers and a 700r4 and it is well thought out.

 

[Dougal]

I have recently moved cross - country so I can't verify my belief that the flywheel cover off a 4bd1 (or 4bd1t) and the cover off a 6bd1 are interchangeable.If this is true, one would need only find the cover off the 6 to give you a SAE3 pattern for your 4 cylinder.

Post #13 in this thread shows a 4BD1 with possibly an SAE #3 bellhousing. But it's an industrial engine. The industrial bellhousings are a lot heavier and longer than the truck type.

 

[coog]

Sae #3

Thanks for your response.I have the 4bd1 with this bellhousing in a 1980 Ford van.It was fitted at a dealership when new, and I believe the only b/h available at the time for either the 4 or the 6.Mine is fitted with a SAE #3 to Ford C-6 adapter ring.My thought is that the back of the blocks are probably the same throughout the run of the BD series, making the flywheel covers interchangeable.I have a 1988 6bd1-t that is mated directly to an Allison a/t that looks to be SAE #3.

 

[Dougal]

Thanks for your response.I have the 4bd1 with this bellhousing in a 1980 Ford van.It was fitted at a dealership when new, and I believe the only b/h available at the time for either the 4 or the 6.Mine is fitted with a SAE #3 to Ford C-6 adapter ring.My thought is that the back of the blocks are probably the same throughout the run of the BD series, making the flywheel covers interchangeable.I have a 1988 6bd1-t that is mated directly to an Allison a/t that looks to be SAE #3.

Some pictures of your two Isuzu setups would be great.

 

[Brian Swanson]

I found out the same thing.

I found out that the 4BD1T does not have an SAE #3 bellhousing flange when I bought a limited production SAE bellhousing that accepts a Ford NP435 transmission, and went out looking for an engine. The 4BD1T did not match the pattern. Bummer

 

[rhino]

if you can find a pre '85 it should have the SAE #3, but after 85 they went to a metric version.

 

[Dougal]

Well this thread sure is interesting.
http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1045690&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

DOUGAL IS CORRECT THE AUTOMOTIVE VERSION OF THOSE ENGS OR RATHER TRUCK VERSIONS DID NOT USE TH E ASE PATTERN, THE INDUSTRIAL ENGS DID , HOWEVER ON ALLMOST ALL OF THE BELLHOUSING WHERE THE LARGE TRANSMISSION FRONT BELL REGISTERS IN THE BELLHOUSING THE REGISTER DIA IS THE SAME AS AN SAE , ONLY THE BOLT HOLES DONT LINE UP, JUST SET THE BELL IN THERE AND REDRILL THEM

Never thought of redrilling a transmission to fit the Isuzu bellhousing.

 

[peatpatrick]

1980 4bd1

I just bought a 1980 4bd1 this last weekend that I guess came out of some sort of GMC. I'm planning on cleaning it up and putting it in a fj40 later on down the road. Its got the adapter on there but since I've only worked with Isuzu's I'm not sure what it is. If anyone can Identify the bolt pattern and or wants measurements just let me know. Even though I don't have the fj40 yet I want to figure out the transmission and transfer case.
Thanks!
pic #1
pic #2

 

[Dougal]

That looks like an SAE housing. The aluminium rocker cover was replaced in later years with a two skinned steel and rubber item to cut down the noise.

 

[coog]

I also had a 1980 4bd1.It was SAE#3.That is a good piece to have, as adapters to SAE#3 to GM,Ford and Chrysler are available.Good Luck.

 

[briney]

does anyone have any pics of the back of the block with the adaptor removed ?

 

[Dougal]

does anyone have any pics of the back of the block with the adaptor removed ?

Not a pic, but here's a rough drawing. It doesn't show the rear seal housing.

 

[briney]

Not a pic, but here's a rough drawing. It doesn't show the rear seal housing.

yeah, that's pretty rough. thanks dougal.

 

[bush65]

Just got mine back from balance and tidy up, ready to be assembled. It is sitting in an awkward position to photograph (I could not see through the viewfinder) and the 2 top bolt holes for the flywheel housing are only partly in the frame.

 

[bt4mpg]

That looks like a shielded pilot bearing. It is best to use sealed pilot bearings instead. Shields are metal and have a gap which allows dirt in. Seals are rubber and completely seal out dirt. Make sure both sides are sealed.

 

[madchiwawa]

isuzu

that looks like the isuzudieselswappers adapter ???

 

[Dougal]

Here's my summary:

It appears there are four main types of bellhousings.

1. Isuzu truck bellhousing. This is similar size to SAE #3 but has different bolt spacing. The bottom of the bellhousing appears "shaved".
Different markets and years give variants with the 2 or 3 bolt starter.

2. Isuzu industrial bellhousing. This is SAE #3 and noticably longer than the truck bellhousing. It features four bolt mount holes on each side.
http://www.isuzu.co.jp/world/product/industrial/pdf/b_draw02.pdf

3. Isuzu QD100 bellhousing. This is the model name the 4BD1 was originally introduced to NA under. It appears identical length to the truck bellhousing, but has a lip that extends right around underneath and has a drain plug fitted to the bottom.

4. Landrover bellhousing. I haven't yet mapped out the pattern for this (though a helpful gentleman has sent me the measurements), it mounts the starter up higher than the Isuzu bellhousings to clear the landrover chassis rail. They bolt up to landrover LT95 or LT85 transmissions. Originally developed for the Australian Army but also sold in civilian landrovers in the late 80's in the pacific region.

 

[coog]

Thanks Dougal. Your list seems comprehensive.I still have not had all of my parts together to compare the mounting patterns of the 6bd(turbo and non) and the 4bd1.I will say that although the 6 is huge, the bellhousings are about the same size.One day...