[SUBRUTUS]

I don’t have the factory air/water cooler. Mine is a separate unit that is in between the turbo and intake manifold.

View attachment 136017

What is the capacity of that coolant to air setup?

 

[dreamin]

What is the capacity of that coolant to air setup?

Don’t know. I guess about a gallon.

 

[Dougal]

I had an almost identical water-air intercooler about 15 years ago. I sold it before ever installing it due to space reasons.
But before that I ran a home-brew air-water intercooler setup I pieced together from junk that worked a little bit. I had a washing machine belt drive water pump driven off the engine water-pump snout, I had sleeved a section of intake piping and used an old cabin-heater radiator out front to dissipate heat. I used a 1 litre plastic bottle as a reservoir.

It worked and was noticeable but temp measurements showed it was only taking out ~15% of the heat. I wore out the belt-drive pump (because it was doing 4x engine speed), bought a subaru electric pump and that same air-water cooler that you've got before abandoning the whole idea in case it leaked water into the engine.

 

[dreamin]

I had an almost identical water-air intercooler about 15 years ago. I sold it before ever installing it due to space reasons.
But before that I ran a home-brew air-water intercooler setup I pieced together from junk that worked a little bit. I had a washing machine belt drive water pump driven off the engine water-pump snout, I had sleeved a section of intake piping and used an old cabin-heater radiator out front to dissipate heat. I used a 1 litre plastic bottle as a reservoir.

It worked and was noticeable but temp measurements showed it was only taking out ~15% of the heat. I wore out the belt-drive pump (because it was doing 4x engine speed), bought a subaru electric pump and that same air-water cooler that you've got before abandoning the whole idea in case it leaked water into the engine.

When you say 15%, what does that mean? Like if I’m running 1000 EGT in cruise, I would love 850. I suspect you don’t mean that.

 

[Dougal]

When you say 15%, what does that mean? Like if I’m running 1000 EGT in cruise, I would love 850. I suspect you don’t mean that.

I had temperature probes before and after the intercooler. 100% would mean cooling it down to outside air temp but it was only getting 15% of that 100%.
A good intercooler can get ~60% of the heat out and an excellent one can do better than 80%.

I wasn't able to control well enough for a with/without intercooler EGT test. I've just had a hunt for my data graphs but I can't find them.

 

[dreamin]

I promised some pics and write up.

So before my long trip, I wanted to see if I could lower my EGT numbers. As it stands, I’m at about 1000 cruising at 60 mph. That’s not great, but when I hit a hill, it’s easy to hit 1200 or more if I want to hold 60. I’m talking about Florida hills, which really aren’t hills. My trip is to the Arrondack mts. In NY. (Yes I know it’s spelled wrong)

I allready have a water/air intercooler on the truck, but it is plumbed in to the radiator. Since that water is around 150 on the cold side, it’s probably not cooling much. Some guys run a complete separate system to a little radiator. I really don’t like the idea of that because I would need an expansion tank, pressure cap and overflow tank, in addition to the cooler and fan.

I came up with the idea of pumping the engine coolent from the cold side of the rad to a new little cooler and then on to the intercooler. That way, the 150 degree water can be cooled some more right before the intercooler.

I bought this cooler / fan setup from Summit. It looks not bad for quality, but I don’t really think Derale is a good brand. I had to buy new larger fittings to plumb into my existing system.

I needed a shroud to run air to it. I had a duct from the front that dumped air in front of my radiator. I didn’t think it made much difference, so I decided to run it to this cooler. First thing to do was bend a flange. You can buy these ready made for up to 3” duct. Of course, my duct is 4 1/2”. Ive made these in the past with my bed roller. It works, but it seems there must be a better way.

This is after one minute.

This is after five minutes of hard work.

This is after half an hour and I’m ready for a drink.

I fabed this up pretty quick.

Then it was on to a mount. A couple hours of shitty welding and I have this.

It kind of looks like this. (except they weld better than me)

Anyways, all together I have this.

I bolted it to the T-case cross member and plugged the duct on. Amazingly enough, it was perfect in length. Just got it done the night before I left.

Today I drove about 300 miles. On flat ground, at 60 mph, it runs about 40 degrees colder EGT. (1020 to 980) That sure didn’t seem to be worth all the work. But I did notice that I could hit a decent sized hill and hold 60mph at 1200 EGT. That was definitely an improvement. The bigger difference was it seem like I had more power at a lower boost. For example, normally I’m running 17 psi to go 60 on flat ground. Now it will do it at 15 psi. I would say it is 2 psi less across the board. Of course, I don’t care about the boost. I just want the EGTs to go down.

 

[SUBRUTUS]

You can improve that cooler flow, by eliminating the right angle fittings and replace with radius type, if space permits.

 

[dreamin]

You can improve that cooler flow, by eliminating the right angle fittings and replace with radius type, if space permits.

Yea, don’t have room to use the sweep fittings.

 

[Levis]

Nice work! That triangle pic is simply too much for the eyes

 

[dreamin]

So another 300 miles and the EGTs are definitely better. I hit a perticully steep hill and the truck backed down to about 55. I put my foot in it fairly hard while watching the EGT. Excellerated up the hill and never got over 1200. It appears that my “load” is more about aero-dynamics than weight. If I keep it at 58, it’s so much better than 65.

 

[dreamin]

Update on this. I’ve noticed that when the water temp is high, my EGTs are higher. To clarify, my water temp runs around 180 degrees in general driving. When I cruise at 60 mph down the highway, it will run 215. If it’s blazing hot out, 250. This is the sensor at the back of the head.

When I’m showing 180, I can really put my foot in it and EGT will not bust 1200. When I’m showing 250, the EGT will be 1200 just holding 60 mph. I must be real careful so as not to bust 1350. (My back down number)

Does anybody know what the temp of the air entering the inter cooler is When your pushing, say, 25 lbs. of boost?

At this point, I’m thinking of hooking a separate tank for my inter cooler to see the effect. Maybe I could do it temporarily until I decide if it is of much value.

 

[eggman918]

"Does anybody know what the temp of the air entering the inter cooler is When your pushing, say, 25 lbs. of boost? "

~ 375* on a 90* day at 1000' using a 65% Compressor efficiency

 

[Dougal]

"Does anybody know what the temp of the air entering the inter cooler is When your pushing, say, 25 lbs. of boost? "

~ 375* on a 90* day at 1000' using a 65% Compressor efficiency

32C day, 65% efficient, 25psi boost at sea-level would be 186C (367F) out of the turbo.
Same at 1000ft would be ~4C higher but slightly lower air density

Our numbers agree.

 

[SUBRUTUS]

Update on this. I’ve noticed that when the water temp is high, my EGTs are higher. To clarify, my water temp runs around 180 degrees in general driving. When I cruise at 60 mph down the highway, it will run 215. If it’s blazing hot out, 250. This is the sensor at the back of the head.

When I’m showing 180, I can really put my foot in it and EGT will not bust 1200. When I’m showing 250, the EGT will be 1200 just holding 60 mph. I must be real careful so as not to bust 1350. (My back down number)

Does anybody know what the temp of the air entering the inter cooler is When your pushing, say, 25 lbs. of boost?

At this point, I’m thinking of hooking a separate tank for my inter cooler to see the effect. Maybe I could do it temporarily until I decide if it is of much value.

Cavitation, is an issue, when water is in the mix, as coolant mixture vents via radiator cap..250 deg f. is never, never land.
I've had this discussion many times, when EVANS WATERLESS COOLANT entered the market. While EVANS does run a little hotter than conventional coolants, it will not boil at temps water does.
Making sure there are no air pockets in your cooling system, is a good start.

 

[dreamin]

"Does anybody know what the temp of the air entering the inter cooler is When your pushing, say, 25 lbs. of boost? "

~ 375* on a 90* day at 1000' using a 65% Compressor efficiency

So that would seem like a difference of 20 degrees outside temp or 70 degrees water temp wouldn’t make much difference to the EGT.

Cavitation, is an issue, when water is in the mix, as coolant mixture vents via radiator cap..250 deg f. is never, never land.
I've had this discussion many times, when EVANS WATERLESS COOLANT entered the market. While EVANS does run a little hotter than conventional coolants, it will not boil at temps water does.
Making sure there are no air pockets in your cooling system, is a good start.

My truck has never vented any steam. It makes me think the sensor/gauge is not correct. Or maybe it’s that hot at the back of the head, but cools some before getting to the rad.

So you recommend the waterless stuff? I’ve heard good and bad. Never seen it in the flesh.

 

[eggman918]

So that would seem like a difference of 20 degrees outside temp or 70 degrees water temp wouldn’t make much difference to the EGT.



My truck has never vented any steam. It makes me think the sensor/gauge is not correct. Or maybe it’s that hot at the back of the head, but cools some before getting to the rad.

So you recommend the waterless stuff? I’ve heard good and bad. Never seen it in the flesh.

I changed the input temp from 90* to 120* and turbo out put temp climbed to 421*

 

[eggman918]

You can go here to get ball park numbers for temps in, out and EGT's regardless of the turbo listed just use your turbos efficiency at the desired boost, ambient temp and IC efficiency.

BorgWarner MatchBot

www.borgwarner.com

 

[SUBRUTUS]

My truck has never vented any steam. It makes me think the sensor/gauge is not correct. Or maybe it’s that hot at the back of the head, but cools some before getting to the rad.

You would not necessarily see the steam venting into your recovery tank, that is if you have one, it generally condensates as it hits cooler air...mixing back into coolant, low pressure caps will vent steam too.
While coolant flow to the back of the head, has been an issue, I can without any reservation whatsoever, state the coolant is super heated and steaming under the conditions you described causing extreme hot spots.
Run a handheld thermal temperature sensor device over your head, when you get the extreme temps.

 

[dreamin]

Doing some more thinking about the separate water system. Is there any reason I need a pressure cap at all? What if I just plumb it into a couple gallon jug? I mean, I’m not expecting the water to get over boiling point, right? Or am I?

 

[!Peter!]

Water does expand as temperature increases even before boiling and can rupture steel pipes. Having said that, for the amount of water in the system and using materials that have stretch (plastic jug, rubber hoses) you'll probably get away with it for testing. Other way to think about it is to consider if the pressure does increase too high what will rupture and what's the impact of it.