[Dougal]

I reckon a HX40/HE221 combo (or HX30/HX40 combo) will get you a solid 500hp.

The catch is it has to happen at lower rpm. Around 4000rpm as the HX40 starts to run off it's map shortly after.
HX40 not wastegated.
HE221 wastegated to 65psi.
Biggest intercooler you can fit.
Probably have to retard timing to keep the head and bottom end intact.
170cc/1000 shots at 17:1.

It's a hell of a torque curve. Over 750Nm at 2000rpm and will hold over 900Nm to 5000rpm.
Power will start to drop off over 4000rpm as you hit the limits of the compressors on the HX40.
Party is completely over by 5000rpm.

But at 4000rpm:
HE221 is doing 26 lb/min (corrected) at PR of 1.78.
HX40 is doing 64 lb/min at PR of 3.05
Boost is 65psi
A/F 17:1
Fuelling is 170cc/1000 shots.
Drive pressure is 84psi
Net power is 438kw.
Pumping losses take that down to around 386kw (520hp).

This will be a very quick car.

So what are everyone's goals again? I'm sure not everyone wants or needs 500hp and 1000Nm. I'm pretty sure their gearboxes don't want that either.

 

[Atg]

175cc is the max my pump will do.

Honestly in terms of power levels, the figures for the he221 alone look very nice. 300hp and tons of torque at 2000rpm scoots around town nicely. But conceptually I have been into this compound idea for awhile and the truck I just sold had 500hp and 500 ft-lbs of torque, and it was great, so it would be nice to build the compound and then just defuel it a bit with the throttle stop for every day.

In terms of driveline, I am prepared to rebuild the slushbox, but in reality it is pretty fresh and the tires will not put all that torque down anyway.

A couple of basic questions:

1. What does this compound setup do at lower fueling levels? Say 120cc? Does it basically become a single?

2. Would you use the 6cm he221 housing for the compound setup also? Or a larger housing?

Thanks.

 

[vr4oaks]

If you wanted a little more air flow, you can aways get a super hx40, I think they flow 74 lbs/min.

 

[Dougal]

175cc is the max my pump will do.

Honestly in terms of power levels, the figures for the he221 alone look very nice. 300hp and tons of torque at 2000rpm scoots around town nicely. But conceptually I have been into this compound idea for awhile and the truck I just sold had 500hp and 500 ft-lbs of torque, and it was great, so it would be nice to build the compound and then just defuel it a bit with the throttle stop for every day.

In terms of driveline, I am prepared to rebuild the slushbox, but in reality it is pretty fresh and the tires will not put all that torque down anyway.

A couple of basic questions:

1. What does this compound setup do at lower fueling levels? Say 120cc? Does it basically become a single?

2. Would you use the 6cm he221 housing for the compound setup also? Or a larger housing?

Thanks.

I'll run the figures for 120cc probably tomorrow if I get the time. The HE221 for compound is 7cm. I had an enquiry out with Alcaid and he said options currently are 5.5cm or 7cm.

If you wanted a little more air flow, you can aways get a super hx40, I think they flow 74 lbs/min.

HX40 super? What is this sorcery?

 

[Atg]

http://turbolabofamerica.com/holset-hx40-super-40-turbo-specs/

 

[Dougal]

http://turbolabofamerica.com/holset-hx40-super-40-turbo-specs/

Same size wheel but billet, it's not going to be a significant improvement. I'm quite leary about wheels with reduced hub diameters. Gain some small increase in flow area, lose a big amount of wheel strength.

 

[Atg]

I thought I read the super was a 60mm inducer and the regular was 58mm, but that doesn't sound like a big difference to me either.

I will ask around and see if people think the motor will hold together at that high torque without a girdle etc. It sounds like a really good compound package if it will fit beneath the hood, and if the hp turbo can sit in the stock location then I think the big one can sit up front where there is more space.

 

[Atg]

I read Super will do 69lb/min, not sure how that compares to regular hx40 flow.

 

[Atg]

I guess this would be the regular hx40 compressor map: http://www.dsmtuners.com/attachments/hx40-7blades-1-jpg.96178/

The hx40 super turbine is supposed to be a bit higher flow also. Not sure if that matters or would be desirable. Or what housing would be best on the 40; as a single they tend to like 16 or 17cm for the 606.

 

[vr4oaks]

I looked online a few months ago and could find them, now it seems that they all but disappeared. Would using a s300 or modified s300 help any dougal?

 

[Dougal]

I guess this would be the regular hx40 compressor map: http://www.dsmtuners.com/attachments/hx40-7blades-1-jpg.96178/

The hx40 super turbine is supposed to be a bit higher flow also. Not sure if that matters or would be desirable. Or what housing would be best on the 40; as a single they tend to like 16 or 17cm for the 606.

HX40 B85 map goes to 66 lb/min. It can be found in the book "real world high performance turbocharger systems" on page 72. It doesn't have efficiency islands though, just outline and rpm lines.
There is also an HX40 E85 shown, about 1lb/min more flow and slightly higher PR. An internet search for Holset B85 pulls these up.

But no more info on how to identify a B85 or E85 compressor.

I mainly use the Midrange Outline Compressor Maps. They are showing a HE451 which I'd like to know more about.

 

[Dougal]

120cc/1000 shots on the HE221/HX40 looks pretty good.

40psi total boost, I split it PR 2 for the HX40 (wastegate to 15psi) and PR 1.85 for the HE221 (wastegate to 40psi)
You'll hit that 40psi by a bit over 2000rpm and it'll hang on till 6000rpm.

Torque is pretty flat at around 750Nm from 2000rpm to 4000rpm.
Power will peak around 4500rpm where 300kw is expected (405hp).
This is at 17:1 A/F.

Drive pressure will top 70psi by 6000rpm, but at 4000 is going to be around 57psi and at 2000rpm drive can be a little below boost.

The HE221 runs just off the map at 6000rpm. This could be mitigated by changing the boost split between the turbos. I'll look into that later if needed.

 

[Atg]

It looks like a nice versatile paring for that motor.

Alcaid can always get whatever is available for compressors.

I will look into the 451.

 

[Atg]

This may not be te most reliable data, but some guy on the supra forum posted this:

The Holset company has a bigger brother to the HE351CW, THE "HE451CW." Its measurements are as follows:
Compressor minor/major: 2.4645"(62.60mm)/3.6455"(92.59mm)
Turbine minor/major: 2.3630"(60.03mm)/2.7405"(69.61mm

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?3249-Supra-Holset-Dodge-turbo-Project-revisited

 

[Atg]

Some maps for the Hx40. Three different compressors. The regular hx40 is a cast 8 blade 58mm. The super is either cast or billet 60mm inducer. Not sure which is which below.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/attachments/hx40-b8554m-jpg.88886/
http://www.dsmtuners.com/attachments/hx40-b8574m-jpg.88887/
http://www.dsmtuners.com/attachments/hx40-b8584m-jpg.88888/

 

[Atg]

Seems like over the 221, the 451 is the better choice for 150cc. The hx40 will do nicely for 120.

 

[Dougal]

The 451 appears to be a twin scroll housing only. I found one reference to 26cm housing. Does anyone know for sure?

 

[Dougal]

HX30 Super and HE451. I used 26cm for the HE451 housing which comes out I think around 1.5 A/R.

Big disclaimer for these results. I can't guarantee any of these components will last when used in this manner. The HE451 will likely be fine, but it's going to be a hard life for the HX30 Super and also for the engine, the gearbox, the driver and everything else.

I used 65psi boost and that came out to more like 170cc for the midrange with 155cc at 5500rpm. 17:1 A/F was used throughout.

6000rpm went off the map a little bit for the big turbo, so even though you can spin it that quick, you're well out of efficiency and power making territory.

Because the HE451 isn't wastegated it tends to gain boost with rpm, peaking at PR 2.73 (25psi) at about 5500rpm.
Max boost is still looking like it arrives a bit past 2000rpm. This is going to be scary to drive!
Torque is over 1000Nm from just past 2000rpm to 4500rpm.
Power will peak around 4000rpm where 400kw is expected (540hp).

Drive pressure will top 120psi by 6000rpm, but at 4000 is going to be around 80psi and at 2000rpm drive is below boost.

The HX30 super is on the map the whole time (based off my guesstimate of an HX30 Super Map) with ~35 lb/min max and the HE451 runs just off the map at 6000rpm. This is ~80 lb/min.
But by 6000rpm you're down to ~265kw anyway so you should have changed up a gear ages ago.

 

[Atg]

Seems a bit extreme, but potentially fun! Not sure I can go that big on the fuel, i terms of wife driving it . But I could do lower fuel and have the option of tuurning it up. Thanks for looking it it.

The only he451 on ebay right now is a twin scroll, but not sure if they know the housing size. I will ask.

 

[Atg]

Guy on ebay says 16A/R housing. So perhaps that is 1.6, but I don't know how they are typically stamped.