The search button shall free all your answers....

Do a little of your own research and you'll be surprised what you find... (Oh I dont know.... the stickie threads located at the top of each section in this forum.


Sorry bud... I could tell you the answer right off the top of my head but unforunately theres been a flood of people just like yourself that are not willing to take 5 minute and read through the forum so to no avail.... good luck.

(I mean no sour thoughts toward you... but stick around here long enough and you'll understand and be welcomed at the same time)

~Mike K

1947 Ford 1.5ton DRW
Cummins 4BT

 

The search button shall free all your answers....

Do a little of your own research and you'll be surprised what you find... (Oh I dont know.... the stickie threads located at the top of each section in this forum.


Sorry bud... I could tell you the answer right off the top of my head but unforunately theres been a flood of people just like yourself that are not willing to take 5 minute and read through the forum so to no avail.... good luck.

(I mean no sour thoughts toward you... but stick around here long enough and you'll understand and be welcomed at the same time)

My apologies for hi-jacking this thread to the original poster, but if you don't want to answer the man's question, why must you reprimand him. This is becoming increasingly apparent in every new person's first question. If you (and I am actually talking about more people than just you personally) want the guy to use the search button because you feel his question can be easily answered by researching it, then simply say that and leave out the condescending remarks, or it this supposed to be a private forum for people who have already "mastered" the 4bt swap?

 

sticking around

I have spent more than a few hours perusing the site and have not yet found the information I am searching for. However I am new to the site, and undoubtedly there is more to see. You took more time informing me that you would not tell me than it would have taken to tell me physically how long the block is. I will continue my search. Thank you.

 

Here is a table that I put together a while ago:

www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6169

NOTE1: This tabel is assembled from Cummins data sheets found on line. I made it while researching an engine swap for a 57 Studebaker stationwagon. I found out that my wallet was at least $5,000 too small .

The table is in an obscure location, so I am not surprised that you did not find it. The links are provided. In some instances, the links contain outline drawings of the engine. I have NOT measured any engines to verify this data.

NOTE2: I am a lurker here, so the following comments do not reflect genuine Cummins grease under my fingernails. The 4BT engine was sold in many different configurations. There are at least 3 different turbo mounting locations. It comes without an aftercooler, a water-to-air aftercooler and an air-to-air aftercooler. All of these affect the space needed to shoe-horn a motor into the hole.

Specifically, the pictures of water-to-air aftercooler engines "looked" taller. Front axle to hood clearance might be a challenge.

NOTE3: I entered "montero" in search. A few questions like yours, did not see much but speculation. You might be plowing new ground.

NOTE4: 47Ford is correct. The value of this site is the technical expertise that is freely given. Most of us have to work for a living and have other obligations. We just don't have time to answer limitless questions.

 

4bt in montero

I would say that a 4 BT is too big and it probably weighs double what your engine weighs. If you go to the Cummins website they have size and weight charts. Before doing anything check on the legality of the swap.

Because there are few engines this size easily available in the US I would racomend a Mercedes car engine. A 300 TD can make good power and is very reliable. They are fairly cheep to buy in wrecked cars, very simple and easy to set up and work on. If you want a 5 speed they are rare in the US but plentiful elsewhere.

If you have 4WD you could either use a divorced transfer case or adapt a GM 700R4. Gear vendors are extreamly expensive, 700R4 are plentyful and reliable.

 

My biggest concern is shoehorning it between roughly where the radiator is supposed to be and the firewall. Height is not a concern since I will be scrapping the IFS/torsion springs and putting in a high pinion Dana 60 with coils and four link. Anything that does not clear the hood will be dealt with later. Weight can be dealt with when I have the front springs made.
Most people have no idea exactly what the Monteros really are. Driving one made me a believer. Owning two makes me a zealot I guess. They are built for the same market as the Land Rover and are as heavy as a suburban. Mine came from the factory with front and rear air lockers among other fun things. It has been a daily driver, and the idea is to improve on what I already have and build it to go anywhere anytime and tow what I need it to tow, consist of parts readily available just about anywhere and last forever.
Thank you guys for your help, I will keep you informed as to how it goes!

 

Well, in the firewall to radiator dimension, it fits into early 80's Toyota pickups without a real problem. So, I'd say it's not going to be one in your application. Most folks run into issues with the height, but you're addressing that.

 

Haha, oh no it'll fit a early Toyota but there are definitely issues. The degree of those issues partially focuses on how low and how far back you want the CG to be. My engine is slammed about as low as it can go and the back of the block is against the firewall, the bell housing is basically in the cab. I have about 7 inches between the pulley and the rad support. There are numerous pictures in my buildup thread of the clearance. You could go forward and no hack the wall, so much or maybe not at all, but a 4BT in a truck made for a 22R makes it front heavy enough, so I wanted to help the weight distribution as much as I could....

 

You cannot just drop an engine down as far as you need to to clear the hood and expect things to work right. Crankshaft centerline is something you typically want to retain in an engine swap, deviate too much from factory and you run into all kinds of drivetrain issues.

You could fit the 4BT into a montero, but it will not be easy. These are not small engines at all, there's more iron than a big block and considerably more height and lower engine width than most engines have.

 

people get sick of 1 post dreamers asking the same questions, which are generally answered somewhere in an faq over and over again. with the new setup, the info on here isn't too bad to find.

 

Short answer:
No.

The montero's (Pajero's here) are too light and too small. The biggest engine mitsubishi ever put in them was a 3.2 litre direct injection diesel. Maybe import a wrecked one from japan and slot it in.
Their earlier diesel engines are indirect injection and best avoided.
http://specs.amayama.com/specs-mitsubishi-pajero-2002-september/17375/

I don't think there has been a successful swap here into an independent front suspension 4wd. Well there was a hummer H1 shown somewhere, but that's a little different.

Aside from that those mitsubishis have gearing too low for an engine like the 4BT, even their diesels do close to 3000rpm at 100km/h. Higher ratio diffs probably aren't that common, especially if you want to retain your lockers.
I hate to break it to you, but the reason that they have twin diff locks in some pajeros is to make up for the lack of axle articulation. Similar to a landrover freelander.

 

The montero's (Pajero's here) are too light and too small. The biggest engine mitsubishi ever put in them was a 3.2 litre direct injection diesel. Maybe import a wrecked one from japan and slot it in.

or a cummins b3.3 can be a good option too... but i still would consider a mercedes om616, that was also used in the g-class, a vehicle with a simillar size and purpose...

 

as above, the 4D56T goes into them easy. they seem a little fragile though. and they have 4.6-ish diff gears.

 

Check mine out

Check out my build "Here's the DeScrambler" I have taken a 4BT/ Th400 US gear OD and Atlas transfercase, and installed them into a Jeep Scrambler. You can see how a long drive train like this fits into a 104" wheelbase.

First: a Gearvendors Overdrive will not fit ,and cannot be installed inbetween the trans and transfercase. I started down this road and stopped due to several very difficult problems to solve requiring serious machine work and fabrication. which would have yeilded a marginal result. I own a machine shop, and have some idea of what I'm doing.

Second: the drive train I have in my project will have a rear drive shaft of 16-17" in length when done. I doubt the wheelbase of the Montero will allow that much length.

The 4BT with NV4500 and Dana 300 transfercase would fit. but you will have to lift the vehicle 4-6" in order to clear the front diff..

Go to the build up threads. See the top stickey which is an index of all of the builds documented here, listed by MFG. You should be able to find something similar to your ideas there and you can get alot of your questions answered.

Everybody is tryiing to get you look around a little more. There is a tremendous amount of info here.

Randy

 

About your wheelbase

It seems that in their ignorance too many people overlook what the Montero really is. My 95 and 02 are the last of a dying breed for the US market. Dougal, what you showed in your post was a unibody 01-06 model designed to appease the crowd who complained about poor street manners of a vehicle designed for the off road market. You are right in comparing it to the freelander, the third generation articulates like a Ford Taurus. The first two generations and the sport had a fully boxed ladder frame underneath with a coil sprung rear end. When you release the anti sway linkage you can almost get them upside down with the tires flat on the ground. Several times a big tire badass truck around here has been humbled by an obscure little four by pulling them out of the ditch in reverse gear and leaving them asking "What is that goofy looking little thing". Now don't get me wrong, I like Jeeps, and I have owned Chevy, Ford, and Dodge SUV's.
I am doing my research and I challenge you to do some of your own about the Montero (My wheel base is 107.5 inches and I don't need to compensate for anything). I also used to be a nonbeliever but then I put one on the rocks on a Colorado trail and on the Waynoka sand dunes and I discovered that it is neither small nor fragile.

 

It seems that in their ignorance too many people overlook what the Montero really is. My 95 and 02 are the last of a dying breed for the US market. Dougal, what you showed in your post was a unibody 01-06 model designed to appease the crowd who complained about poor street manners of a vehicle designed for the off road market. You are right in comparing it to the freelander, the third generation articulates like a Ford Taurus. The first two generations and the sport had a fully boxed ladder frame underneath with a coil sprung rear end. When you release the anti sway linkage you can almost get them upside down with the tires flat on the ground. Several times a big tire badass truck around here has been humbled by an obscure little four by pulling them out of the ditch in reverse gear and leaving them asking "What is that goofy looking little thing". Now don't get me wrong, I like Jeeps, and I have owned Chevy, Ford, and Dodge SUV's.
I am doing my research and I challenge you to do some of your own about the Montero (My wheel base is 107.5 inches and I don't need to compensate for anything). I also used to be a nonbeliever but then I put one on the rocks on a Colorado trail and on the Waynoka sand dunes and I discovered that it is neither small nor fragile.

Sorry I misread, I thought you wanted to put the 4BT in your 02.
But the 95 isn't a much better candidate, it's even smaller. The earlier ones are leaf sprung rear suspension, second generation went coil springs in the rear but the suspension travel isn't good.
http://specs.amayama.com/mitsubishi/pajero/1995_8/photo/5697/
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Mitsubishi/Pajero/auction-198354400.htm

I know people who own these vehicles and have been driving with the swb ones offroad, sorry I never will be a fan.
But the owners do rave about an unbreakable drivetrain, with the stock engines and tyre size of course.

 

About your wheelbase

It seems that in their ignorance too many people overlook what the Montero really is. My 95 and 02 are the last of a dying breed for the US market. Dougal, what you showed in your post was a unibody 01-06 model designed to appease the crowd who complained about poor street manners of a vehicle designed for the off road market. You are right in comparing it to the freelander, the third generation articulates like a Ford Taurus. The first two generations and the Sport had a fully boxed ladder frame underneath with a coil sprung rear end. When you release the anti sway linkage you can almost get them upside down with the tires flat on the ground. Several times a big tire badass truck around here has been humbled by an obscure little four by pulling them out of the ditch in reverse gear and leaving them asking "What is that goofy looking little thing". Now don't get me wrong, I like Jeeps, and I have owned Chevy, Ford, and Dodge SUV's.
I am doing my research and I challenge you to do some of your own about the Montero (My wheel base is 107.5 inches and I don't need to compensate for anything). I also used to be a nonbeliever but then I put one on the rocks on a Colorado trail and on the Waynoka sand dunes and I discovered that it is neither small nor fragile.

 

Leaf springs

I was surprised to see a Montero Sport several months back with leaf springs in back in the parking garage at work. One interesting I have found with the Mitsubishi's is that the dealers won't talk parts with you until they have the VIN #. I had to build a new driveshaft because no one could find my U joints. That has been the only real problem finding parts, but there are some interesting variations that I have seen. I'm sure in your neck of the woods there are even more.

 

we get them over here, badged as a pajero. ( spanish for wanker btw ! ) a 4bt would be serious work to fit in one. they are tall and heavy. i don't believe you would get an effective vehicle once you were done. the money may be better spent on some fuel driving it around and enjoying as is.

having said that, have you looked into mitsubishi diesels ? we get turbo diesels over here and th 02-up ones fly.

 

Mitsu Diesel

I have looked at the Fuso Diesel from the cab-over trucks. biggest problem I can see is that the starter would displace the throttle pedal and require a large portion of the footwell. One of my goals is to eliminate any requirement for a computer and as far as I can see, that probably won't happen with anything from a modern vehicle. My 02 is a Sport which was a little unusual in that it was built after the generation 2, but does not look anything like the rest of the Montero's. Do you have that version over there?

 

I have looked at the Fuso Diesel from the cab-over trucks. biggest problem I can see is that the starter would displace the throttle pedal and require a large portion of the footwell. One of my goals is to eliminate any requirement for a computer and as far as I can see, that probably won't happen with anything from a modern vehicle. My 02 is a Sport which was a little unusual in that it was built after the generation 2, but does not look anything like the rest of the Montero's. Do you have that version over there?

Is your sport a gen 2 that's been facelifted with pumped out guards?
We have all sorts of freak cars imported from japan, mitsubishi even made an "evo" model of the gen 2 pajero.
Have a hunt through here: http://www.trademe.co.nz/browse/cat...itsubishi&15=pajero&18=0,0&24=0,0&searchRegion=100&x=52&y=11&sort_order=24_desc and see if you can see anything that looks similar.

I think putting anything other than a mitsubishi engine in it will be a massive struggle.
The 2.8 turbo intercooled (4M40T or something like that) ones go okay but have a few issues, the eat glowplugs and indirect injection means they use more fuel than most diesels. But it'll be almost a straight bolt in.

 

Great project

 

My Sport

The Sport does not look anything like the regular Monteros. The roofline is much lower and it sits more like a station wagon. The driveline is just about identical to my 95 SR and its a four door also but while mine sits 7, the Sport only sits 5. RIght now on E-bay there is an Isuzu Trooper with a 4bt in it. It looks like he has roughly the same idea that I do. I like the idea of the overdrive trans but the jury is out as to whether or not the GM 700 is strong enough. The end result I am looking for is something that will cruise on the highway, pull my 18 foot trailer, play in the mud/sand/trails, rinse and repeat. It will be easy enough to run a decent gear ratio with a lower ratio in the T case than I have now. The 3.5 is a little underpowered in a tight trail situation, it makes its power too high in the revs, but its fun in the sand.

 

Got a link for that trooper with the 4BT?

We had a guy here who started such a conversion (second generation trooper) but I think it was sold before completion.

 

Trooper

No link, I just saw it on E-bay. I parked next to a friend trooper at work Wednesday night. Size wise mine sits up a little taller. A friend put a Chevy small block into an Isuzu Amigo and the rest of the running gear is all Blazer. Other than the front leaf spring shackles extending out where the bumper used to be it looks like a factory installation. The axles put the tires out from the wheel wells and the wheelbase is about the same as the width. Its pretty driveable, but the power to weight ratio is crazy.