Most likely. What kind of loads do you wish to haul. Do you live near or in the mountains or plains? Are you skilled in automotive work and parts searching or do you have to pay? What would your typical trip look like? Manual or automatic trans? Right off, I would say for one ton, 4 wheel drive, a 6bt Cummins or equivalent would be required. Payout on a conversion frequently does not happen, unless it is just a hobby job.

Chat with some on here for similar and larger and smaller vehicles. Perhaps someone in your neighborhood has converted to diesel you could visit. Listen to to what kinds of cruise speeds, what loads they haul, what kind of fuel consumption they obtain. You might consider spending some time on here to get some good ideas what is involved in a conversion.

Ed

 

No mountains or planes. This would be my first swap, typical trip would be to work and back, occasionally a car/truck show, not hauling of loads, manual transmission.

 

I don't see vehicle class determining the power you need. More the total weight you are moving. Either hauling or towing.

Some people run around empty and never haul or tow anything. Others drag a trailer every week.

 

What you need to study is the power output of the engine and how much this will cost. First off, the engine has 161 HP @ 3600 RPM. It's torque output is listed at 310 lb ft and covers a pretty wide band. So this engine of 2.8L has about the same power as the IHC 6.9 that came in the Ford trucks in the mid 1980's. Although it seems tiny in size comparison, it should be able to move the truck. May not be a speed demon on take off but you have to learn how to use its power. I have owned both a Ford 6.9 and 7.3 and both performed well in all types of use. Now the big factor, COST. Currently the base engine kit is around $8000. That gets you the engine and all its electronic controls. It will be up to you to come up will all the parts to marry it to your truck. #1 will be a transmission. The engine has an SAE2 adapter plate unless they've changed it. Only option would be an SAE3. There are companies now making adapters to fit manual transmissions to that bolt pattern. Need to have a few transmission options and look at adapters available. If you plan on AC you'll have to adapt that. The engine has no AC mount. You'll have to create motor mounts, install sensors for your gauges, exhaust system, air intake system, etc. These are just normal things in a swap. You might, and I emphasis might, get out for $12,000-15,000 and you doing all the work. Companies who install those engines in Jeeps charge in the $20,000+ range. Labor is expensive. Don't plan on this happening over a weekend. Might be more in the 1-2 year range. Also, check your state regulations as to repowering with a diesel. The engine is 50 state smog legal but some states have weird rules governing changing engines.

 

By the way, never seen 21" tires on a truck.

 

I wouldn’t be hauling a trailer or any heavy payload. I don’t expect to get this done in a weekend, it would be a long term project, I’d expect it to take years (I want it done correctly). I would be putting big tires so that I can get it up to highway speeds within the RPM limits of the engine.

 

The one downside in the long term project is I believe the engine comes with a 2 year warranty from Cummins. Your warranty may expire before you get done.

 

Personally I would buy a running low mileage 6bt truck, sell the parts you don't need. A warranty is cool but the swap time would eat up a lot of that time. I think the 2.8 is a much more street friendly motor but the 6bt would cost less and more durable in the long run.

 

I guess that I could make a mock engine since they give the dimensions of the it. Then buy the engine.

 

1. Do you already have the truck you want to use? What is it?

2. There are guys who at their first swap have a ton of fab experience; they have welders, mills, lathes available. For them, a complicated first swap ends up being no big deal. An electronic motor, with limited history being swapped into a truck which is somewhat too-heavy for the motor's output...falls into the "complicated swap" category.

3. There are other guys who at their first swap need to be walked-though things as simple as gear selection. For them, it seems a the-easiest-swap-ever would be a good place to start. e.g., F350 with 5-speed and IDI getting a 6BT.

4. Of course, lots of money solves any swap challenge.

Roy

 

My vision for the truck is as follows:

1. 1 Ton Chassis (preferably a dually)
2. Ford Cab
3. Vintage grill (preferably from the 30's or 40's)
4. Front fenders from the a 30's or 40's truck
5. Most likely it will have a suspension lift to fit some big tires on.

Basically a 4x4 truck rat rod I guess you could say.

 

Sounds great. Ideal for a 6BT.

 

If I was to go the 6BT route I would probably go the route of a computer-less motor. Would I be able to bot up a NV5600 6 Speed to an engine that old?

 

Yes. All the manuals Dodge used (Getrag, NV4500, N5600, G56) will easily bolt to any BT. You will need the correct engine-to-transmission adapter...there were at least three different ones.

 

Have to be careful on the old style trucks. A 6bt is very large. Have to consider things like radiator and intercooler. Also, those are very wide and the engine compartment on some of those old trucks is very narrow. A 6bt can be a tight fit even on some modern pickups.

 

From his description of his ideal truck...it sure seems he will be open to serious sheet-metal alteration. Based on what he wants, I would start with a F350 dually which came with a Diesel and a ZF 5- or 6-speed.

 

12 valve isn't that big. They fit just about anywhere that was designed for a V8 or inline 6. V6 rigs like a tacoma or ranger are usually out, but pretty much anything else fits a 12V fine.

I think when Cummins eventually gives up support for the R2.8 like they've done for all the other little diesels they used to support and the last 2.8 dies from some plastic part breakage or electronics degradation the vast majority of all the 12 valves ever built will probably still be on the road.

 

12 valve isn't that big.

Yes, it is that big. It's a tight fit in some modern full size pickups. This guy is talking about a vehicle from the 1930s or 1940's. Those engine compartments were very narrow. One of our members put a 4bt into a '32 Chevy and couldn't use the hood side panels.

 

Not necessarily. The Jeep YJs and TJs had AMC straight 6 gas engines in them (4.2L and 4.0L respectively), but you can't fit a 5.9 or 6.7 Cummins unless you are willing to stretch the engine bay at least 8" or so.

To the OP: before you decide on the R2.8, be advised that the engine is 100% manufactured in China and doesn't have a good record for longevity or durability. I'd suggest you do some deep research on this before committing to this engine. I will refrain (for now) from ranting about how disgusted I am with Cummins for moving so much parts production to China.

 

Everywhere I've been told a 6bt won't fit I've been able to fit one and it worked and looked great.

A 12 valve is 950 pounds and needs 32 inches of length. Most vehicles handle it fine. Sure, some just won't fit it, but most people seem to believe the engine is much larger and heavier than it actually is.

I never tried putting one in a YJ, but I bet it would fit just peachy.

 

I will bet you real money it won't. I have a 12V in my truck, so I can take every measurement I want. My buddy has a Jeep YJ that he swapped an LQ4 (6.0L LS truck engine) into. That engine fills the bay. I measured and there was no way to fit a 12V and have anything resembling a proper radiator, let aone an IC.

 

Snuggletough, where did you get your dimensions on a 12 valve? A 6bt is 40" L x 24.9" W x 37.9" H and weighs 1100 lbs or more depending on injection pump and accessories.

 

I have accurate shipping scales and can read a tape measure.

The weights do vary by block castings. I have a late 2002 ag block in my 12 valve superduty. It weighs 200 pounds more than the other blocks.

The actual dimensions of a 12v are nowhere near that big.

Where did you get those dimensions? Did you measure or just go off something cummins put out as installed space requirements for an industrial engine?

 

12 valve is 32" from back of block to front of timing housing. Add 2" for crank pulley and accessories. add 2.5" for narrow mechanical fan or less for electric (mech is always best though)

I find you can typically relocate radiator an inch or two when needed without any major modification.

If the vehicle has a tiny engine bay it probably isn't big enough to need an intercooler. A very small radiator will cool a 250HP Cummins in any condition in a lightweight vehicle. You can't really tow anything with a 4000 lb half ton truck, SUV, ETC. Unless the engine is under continuous load it doesn't gen much heat at all.

My point is that if you can fit a 4BT you can almost always fit a 12 valve, often times a 12 valve actually fits better because of how stuff is positioned on the engines. There is negligible weight difference between the two. The 4BT has two less rods and pistons, and 8" less block, head and crankshaft. That doesn't add up to more than about 150 pounds. I actually have a "1BT" that is a destroyed 12 valve I cut and machined into exactly one cylinder. I can pick it up pretty easy, timing housing, gears and all. it weighs about 80 pounds I would guess.

One of these days I will pick up a cheap wrangler and assemble with a 12 valve. MaxPF, I'm not a betting man, but I will wager a 6 pack of beer or soda that it will fit without cutting firewall or mounting the radiator on the roof. It might take some non-standard parts, but I'm sure it will fit if a 4.0 fits in there. Some stiffer springs and hit the road.

 

I'm not going to argue the point. I've done the measurements, and it won't work. Not without massive surgery.

 

This will be a custom truck so I will mount the engine, transmission and transfer case and place the cab accordingly. I am leaning towards the 6BT tho, I think the 2.8 will be too small for this size truck.

 

Snuggletough, I would like to see a photo of a fully operational 6bt installed in a 36" long engine bay. That gives you 4 extra inches over the 32" length you give for the engine.

 

FYI, The first gen Dodge engine compartment measures 38 inches from the firewall to the back of the radiator (fan side). The second gen Dodge is 39 inches do to the different fan mount/pulley. So if you want to fit a 6B with Dodge fan and mount(s) that what it takes.

 

Pretty rough, but I don't think they cut the firewall: http://smclassiccars.com/jeep/144782-custom-92-wrangler-yj-12-valve-cummins-swap.html

 

I think they did. Look at the rear axle - it's been pushed back to accommodate the driveline. If the engine stopped at the stock firewall you could fit a 4500 and SYE 241 and have enough room for a decent driveshaft without moving the rear axle. My buddy's YJ has the engine about 2" from the firewall, a 4L80E, and a SYE pass. drop 241, and the driveshaft is 18" long with the rear axle in the stock location.

I also see that build is using an aluminum radiator, likely inset into the grille/core support, and has no intercooler. He also had to use an electric fan. Like I said, a 12V won't fit without massive surgery. If you want an automatic, you now have to find room for a proper transmission cooler. I also don't think that build has a power steering cooler. Any serious off-road use needs a PS cooler to prevent boiling the fluid and getting PS and (if using a hydroboost) brake fade.

There is a BIG difference between "it will fit" and a proper, functional swap. Again, I guarantee that guy had to do massive surgery to the firewall and/or core support as well as relocating the rear axle and was still not able to fit an intercooler or PS cooler. It may run and drive, but it isn't a proper or practical swap.