Last I read is that the FEDS are in a legal battle with CARB.
What I remember reading is that the Feds are telling CARB that you can not set your own emission standards. Only the EPA can. So if the Feds win the battle then CARB will be no more.

 

That sounds good. How long has the legal battle been going on for? Is there any end in sight?

 

the whole CARB thing is a joke and is such a scam. as far as gas engines go... why should it matter what the engine looks like under the hood, if you have matching cat converters, blah blah blah, different looking air cleaner then stock. im all for keeping things clean. so lets keep it that way who cares what it looks like under the hood, stick the sniffer in the tailpipe and if it comes out clean then call it good. if you have an older vehicle that had a carb and you put a newer fuel injected engine in that burns cleaner, better mpg and all that it would fail because of the visual inspection???? what kind of BS is that? my rant about CARB

 

You guys are all on the wrong track. You never tell the DMV ANYTHING!!!

All you have to do is put your diesel engine in a pre 76 vehicle then there is no smog or inspection required.

If you try to be legal you will find out in a hurry that they will not let you, no matter how hard you try. Best way is to never let them see it, which is not that hard to do. Been doing this for 40 years, started lying to them on the second trip to register my first vehicle. They really don't care. And if you register at a DMV that has alot of mexican women working, they really, really, really don't care.

Stothew? don't you have a 74 Bronco? shouldn't be a problem.

Randy

 

70 actually, and yea doesnt matter for me...just saying how ridiculous it is for others.

 

This is why i hate CA. lived there for five years. gorgeous place (central coast), but its like swimming through an ocean of idiots every day. then they decide to come up here to Montana cuz the houses are cheap. EVERYBODY up here cant stand it lol. All you guys who are sick of it should move up here. no inspection whatsoever.

 

Mine is actually a 67 CJ6. I hate their guts, they are one of the most idiotically run outfits in existance and always have been. That second trip I was talking about, well, I actually lied to my girlfriends mother who ran the place, and she knew exactly what I drove. Looked her right in the eye too!they really don't care.

Randy

Scott where are you ? I'm in Ojai (home of the Bionic woman, no shit)

Dirtrider: find a pre76 vehicle then you can put whatever you want into it. I'm partial to Jeeps but and older chev truck or an early blazer would work. There are lots of choices. R

 

Buchanan, my problem is finding a vehicle. I need to be able to sit 5+ people comfortably, tow at least 3K lbs, not have something that can't get out of its own way, and get 30+ MPG (otherwise I will just keep my 318). I had it all worked out... a 1993-1998 Grand Cherokee that could have 350ft lbs and get 30MPG with a b3.3, but then CARB had to go and ruin everything. This sucks! Did they make 4 door Wagoneers back in 75?

 

1. By trying to use a 3.3 off road engine your asking for trouble.

 

I try to stay out of this BS but here is what I think.


1. Don't go to the DMV and tell them what you doing ,your only asking for trouble.
2. I do understand some states are little up tight about what you do to your truck but if you look at any state they have a rule book and just about everyone that has changed a single part that wasn't made or looked different from the factory has broken a law ,lift,tires,radio,tint,body lift,bumpers,mud flaps and so on.
3. The gov has more problems to worry about than if you installed a Diesel engine in a none diesel truck .

Just my .02

Scott

 

Just don't tell them and get it inspected by someone you know. Pre-95 vehicles still getting sniffer tests in cali?

 

Nope, no sniffer tests at all in Cali. For now at least.

 

what are you talking about any vehicle gets a sniffer test newer then 76 or 75 dont know for sure. in fact i have seen personally 4 random smog police sting operations...where the carb has set up a trailer with the sniffer and dyno rollers with a CHP parked with them picking people out of traffic to bring them over for random sniff test, in fact saw one just a week ago. tell me that isnt a waste of our money. cant they just wait till they get their bi-annual test to bust them? no they need to spend our money to bust them sooner. it looked like that setup they use cost about $100,000 plus the van they use to cart it around and the CHP wage for the day. i live in so. cal between LA and riverside, the san gabriel valley.

scott

 

Dirtrider, look into swapping an "imported-from-Japan" Isuzu 4JG2 or 4JB1 3.1 turbo diesel. Search Isuzu Trooper or Bighorn.

Go to ebay and search Isuzu Trooper diesel

 

Are these Troopers pretty good vehicles? What do I look out for if buying one to use as a daily driver. Rust?? Weak components?? What kind of mpg do they get and lastly what lb can they tow??

 

A full size Blazer, Bronco, Ramcharger, yes they did make 4 door Wagoneers before 76, they were called Cherokees, and I've seen some really cool ones with Gladiator front ends on them. (mag articles) Jeep didn't change the basic body of that vehicle from 72 til they stopped making them, only the front clips.

PAY ATENTION! to what we are all saying about the DMV. Stay away from them. Learn the rules and work the rules to your favor. I know exactly what I'm talking about here, my first girlfriends mother ran the DMV in my town for 25 years, and she told me exactly how to conduct myself.
Only go to DMV's in small towns to do your paperwork, they tend to be less interested in what you are doing and don't stick their noses in your business. Never volunteer information, keep your mouth shut, have everything arrainged so all that happens is them processing the paperwork. If you run into problems, leave! Go to another DMV and tell them the new story that gets you where you need to go. People usually get into trouble by telling them the wrong thing, if you get tripped up, leave, come back with the right answer to the question!

I don't think 3.3's aren't going to drag alot of weight and still get high mileage. I think it would be a good setup for an XJ. But a full sized truck needs the bigger engine.

As far as 30 MPG goes now you're down to XJ sized vehicles which didn't exist yet. Maybe it's time to look at a compromise like I'm always talking about. You're not getting anything close to 20MPG with what you have now, so maybe 25 wouldn't be so bad. 30 mpg might be a little optimistic, especially with an extra 800lbs of people in it.

1 mpg loss for every 200lbs of extra weight above your empty weight, guys. That's the standard formula., and it is very accurate.

Randy

 

1 mpg loss for every 200lbs of extra weight above your empty weight, guys. That's the standard formula., and it is very accurate.

I'm not certain where that particular formula came from, but I'm not sure that it applies to diesel powered trucks, and I know for a fact that it doesn't apply to mine.

If that was the case, an unloaded semi truck should get around 207mpg (give or take). :happyfinger:

Sorry, jumped off topic there for a minute! Don't mind me... :rasta:

 

Yeah, if I was to build a Wagoneer I know I would have to use a 3.9 and nv4500. I already have a NV3500 and NP231 sitting around so a smaller vehicle like a ZJ would be better. How are those imported 4JG2 or 4JB1 3.1 engines? What kind of injection pump do they have? Have they been modified for more power?

Would it be bad if I called anonymously and asked an inspector that if I did the swap if he would give me registration? I just don't want to do it and then end up not being able drive it.

 

Yeah, if I was to build a Wagoneer I know I would have to use a 3.9 and nv4500. I already have a NV3500 and NP231 sitting around so a smaller vehicle like a ZJ would be better. How are those imported 4JG2 or 4JB1 3.1 engines? What kind of injection pump do they have? Have they been modified for more power?

Some info in the Isuzu section about those. No point repeating it here.

 

There was a really cool Wagoneer in one of the mags last year. It was black and had the wood on the side and everything. It also had a front end off a Gladiator truck with the Hitler grill. The only problem is that it had an AMC 401 in it, which got about 9 MPG. A 4BT with and NV 4500, or an OD auto would be so cool in a Jeep like that. He had 33 X 9.50 Swampers on it, a 4" lift and AC, D44's f&r, and everything, it would haul like 8 people, and a boat. You could find one like this that is a pre '76 gasser, make the DMV transfer. It's pre smog so you don't have to get it inspected when you buy it or bi-annually, and then you make the 4BT swap, the DMV never will see it. If you sell it, it's pre '76 so the same thing applies to the new buyer, unless they change the laws. As it sits they have been trying to change the smog laws for older cars for many years and there is, and has been, substantial opposition from SEMA and other hotrod and offroad groups.

As far as talking to the DMV anonamously it's pointless, they have already told you you can't do what you originally wanted to. The key here is to make your vehicle a normal vehicle. Not to tell them about your ideas to create a monster truck. Never ask them if such and such would be OK, and never tell them what you're doing, because the answer will always be NO! :happyfinger:

You need to learn to be under the radar here! Did you know that you can only get a ticket for speeding, or running a stop sign, if a cop sees you do it? Under the radar! :happyfinger:

Best way is to just swap into a pre '76 vehicle and not worry about it. Either that or license the car out of state. That's another story.

How do you think all of the hotrod guys build their cars. They are all pre '76, and never ever see a smog check.

Randy

 

Actually, the 4 doors are usually Wagoneers, and the 2 door rigs are usually Cherokees. There was some crossover thru the years, and with 2 door Wagoneers and 2 door Cherokees.

As to how long the body style was around, essentially unchanged since 1963.

I think the only vehicle with a longer run in a single body style was the Checker cab.

I have an 82 Waggie, a 76 Honcho, and just became the proud owner of a 67 M715.

Guess which one gets the 4BT I have in storage?

FWIW, a 4bt is a nice fit in a Waggie, but you will need to put a little lift under it because of the height of the engine. A few inches of body lift will work.

Doug

 

It's been my experience that aerodynamics play a much larger role at steady speeds. City or mountain driving is a different matter, for obvious reasons. The amount of power to propel my 2000 lb 1995 Honda civic at a steady 65MPH is not much different than for my 4400 lb 1966 Olds Toronado.

The best MPG I got in my 1995 Honda Civic was carrying a complete Oldsmobile 455 engine in the back

40MPG with the A/C on, doing 65-70MPH on the Jersey Turnpike

 

i think really no one cares if you put a diesel in your truck or car , the problem is you go to dmv and open your mouth with way too many questions and explanations that they just send your way out , this is what i have done i have 6 conversion trucks all post 1999 . all from cali , like many say here , i went to a small town dmv parked on the inspection line (usually next to the driving test)
told the lady i need a vin inspection (didnt needed one) , then told her its no longer a gas that engine blew up and now its a diesel , gets her pen and puts a D on "moving power" thats it !!, go inside and do your paperwork tell the lady to change the title and thats it, i found that this works best if you are doing a change of ownership. its been 3 years in my 99 V10-> cummins ford sd , no more smog requests.

 

Thats really what I wanted to hear. Even if it takes going to different DMV's, I don't mind. As long as I eventually get it registered. Which small town DMV did you go to? Thank you very much for telling about how you did it.

 

if your worried about emissions just run biodiesel or svo when you go for your inspection. it will reduce emissions by something like 50-70% i believe.

 

It's much, much, much, much more complicated than that, Chuck.

 

The 1 MPG loss per 200lbs is just a rule of thumb when adding stuff to your Jeep, May not so scientific, sorry, but when you're piling stuff on your Jeep like winches and hi lift jacks and steel bumpers that weigh 600lbs, it shows up real fast in reduced gas mileage.

I'm glad to see others comment on "operating" the CA DMV.

Once again, and I'm sure others will agree, you've got to appear normal. Any big deviations (usually exposed by opening mouth) throw up red flags and prevent you from getting what you want.

Mikel: that 40mpg with the engine in the back was because the front wheels weren't touching the ground very often, right? Just bounce along down the road.

Randy

 

Mikel: that 40mpg with the engine in the back was because the front wheels weren't touching the ground very often, right? Just bounce along down the road.

I also questioned your +200lb = -1mpg calculation...

With a 400 lb Roadranger riding shotgun I still got 52 mpg at 67mph in my Jetta, up from my usual 45-48mpg. This on a all but non stop trip from IL to VA a few months ago.
I had previously hauled an identical transmission in the trunk, the passenger seat is much preferred, rides a lot better.

Grigg

 

so you were running on the two right tires? R

 

Somewhat, it did have a noticeable list to the right with just the trans in there, although I may have balanced it out somewhat while driving.. hard to say, because I hadn't figured out how to stand in front of the car and look while sitting in the drivers seat at the same time. :idea:

Grigg

 

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I am really having trouble registering my 4bt 1978 CJ7.....What DMV would give me the best chance of being able to explain to the inspector that the vehicle is now a diesel?

 

What I did and do on my vehicles is Non-Op them when I quit driving them and start building them. Sometimes it takes me a year, sometimes longer for me to build one.

I tell the DMV that I made some modifications to the vehicle when I go and have it re-registered.

They hand me a Application for Title/Verification of Vehicle (form # 343 (rev. 2/2007) REG 343/31 Combined). I have a highway patrol officer inspect the vehicle and fill out his portion of the form.

I take it back to DMV and pay them the money.

Some of my rigs take on an entire new shape with completely different engines and power train.

I only do legal swaps, meaning I do not try to put industrial engines (off-road only) into a highway driven vehicles.



Below is an example of Before and After. After has a 3.9 4BT.

 

In NY all you have to do is check the diesel fuel fuel type box on the registration forms and your all set. Same for propane, just check the alternate fuel box. They seem to be encouraging alternate fuels here, making it easier to do these kind of swaps. Its that easy for vehicles that came with a diesel from the factory, your in a world of hurt if they never made a diesel for your vehicle.

On newer vehicles with diesels its a nightmare. A friend bought a 2008 VW diesel from a dealership in another state and drove it home. He tried to register it here. They wouldn't let him because none of the newer diesels from 2006(?) - 2008 meet the smog requirments here. They won't even let the dealerships sell them.


I agree the CARB and emmissions laws are nothing but a HUGE SCAM and a pain in the ass. Nine tines out of ten it doesn't make any sense at all, ie: the inability to replace a 15mpg guzzler with a 30mpg diesel of a newer year becuase it wont meet a visual inspection. Also the inability to alter a vehicle even if it makes it burn cleaner. I agree if it passes the sniff test what difference does it make what it looks like or what components you use. If it was really about cleaning up our air it wouldn't matter what you did to your vehicle as long as it passes the sniffer. The sniffer test should be the deciding factor and nothing else.

The preach GO GREEN save the earth, do your part. Go alternate fuel BLAH BLAH BLAH its all crap because they nail you every way they can for stepping outside the box of conformity. Go biodiesel or SVO they crucify you for failing to pay road tax on your fuel. Put a high mpg diesel in your vehicle and you can't register it anymore because it doesn't meet bogus smog laws. Tune your vehicle to get more milage and performance and you don't meet visual inspection law anymore. Its all a big fat JOKE. If politicians really cared about actual environmental impact and wanted to encourage change they would alter the laws to allow these repowers and alternative fuel uses. Its hypocritical to push for all these changes in the private and commercial sectors of our society just to prevent you from applying them in any practical way at the DMV. DMV and CARB laws need to be scrutinized and reformed immediately. Think they will ever do it? Hell no, they would rather preach from a podium how crucial it is to prevent global warming by drilling into you the need for higher efficiency, higher mpg vehicles that also burn twice as clean. At the same time completely ignoring the laws that are in place that effectively prevent you from doing anything you can to accomplish just that. Its complete insanity to imagine that a person could invent an engine and fuel system to net 60mpg and burn twice as clean as any engine is use today and still be non smog compliant on a visual inspection. That to me is the definition of ludicrous!!! Just imagine trying to register a brand new 2009 (insert vehicle of your choice) with a 50mpg carb on it. You wouldn't even get to the sniff test. Your invention could run on used motor oil and blow candy kisses out the tailpipe and you'd never be allowed on the road because the emissions system has been tampered with. Sorry, but I don't consider improvements "tampering". I don't care if the engine is from 1932 as long as it passes the sniff test it shouldn't matter what's under the hood. Its just plain insanity to me and I've been saying it for 15 years.

Sorry for the length of this post I just feel this issue is important, and needs to be adressed within government ASAP. People are being penalized for being creative and trying to help improve our environment. The laws are unjust, the system is a SCAM, and the federal and local governments need to end the hypocrisy.

"Don't tell DMV anything!!" Sadly this is the best advise and I agree 100%. Get it built and register it anyway you can. There is almost always some loophole somewhere you can take advantage of. Its just a matter of finding out when where and how to squeek your papers through. I've know guys that swap engines once a year to get the papers they need just to swap back once its legal. A real pain but sometimes its easier then bashing your head against a wall at the DMV for what seems like a eternity.

smoothoperator - To answer your question your swap may not be legal in your state and you may never be able to register your CJ for on road use with the 4bt in it. I say this because the CJ you own probably was never available from the factory with a diesel engine option. So, to put it simply you might be skewd.

Possible options:

Try and register it as a composite vehicle. They will need papers on every part that went into the truck. Engine, trans, chassis, body, axles, everything. I know a man from another state that put a CJ body on a heavily altered dodge truck chassis that came with a 6bt. He used the 4bt, but because the chassis came with a diesel and he re-bodied with the CJ the DMV allowed him to register the vehicle as a composite and issued him a new VIN for the truck. This is a complete pain in the ass to accomplish and requires a very very thorough inspection by DMV inspectors and depending on the inspector they may give you a real hard time.

Canada has alot of diesel Jeeps I believe alot of them are made by Mitsubishi and imported directly from Japan. Find out what the import laws are from Canada and see if you can get one of these. Mitsubishi bought the tooling so tubs and body parts interchange. Put your 4bt chassis under that body and you might have something easily registerd as all you would have to do is check off the diesel engine box on the reg forms and your all set. Now if your state requires underhood inspection or sniff tests for diesels this may not be a viable option.

Buy a small piece of property in a non emissions state and set up a post office box there. Register your Jeep in that state. I actually have a family member that used to do this in Maine until they started requiring emissions testing. I still register all my boats and trailers in Maine as there are no inspections for trailers and the registration fees are less then half of what they are in NY.

Buy another CJ chassis with a gas engine and register it, then put your tub on the 4bt chassis. You'd have to switch back and forth every year. I wouldn't go this route myself as its illegal smog wise and to much work to bother with.

And the last thing I can think of is call your main DMV office and get in touch with someone who is versed in your local laws on alternative fuel vehicles. Tell him you have built this vehicle and want to run SVO in it. Ask what you need to do to get it through the system as an alternative fuel vehicle. Now, you never have to run SVO or biodiesel in it if you don't want to. It just seems to me that some guys in the DMV will work with you to finagle the system a bit to push an alternative fuel vehicle through because they know the system is a joke and hypocritical. As an alternative fuel truck you might find you have better luck acquiring the information you need from these folks. This is how I found out about the laws here in NY. I called, spent an hour on the phone before I got to this older sounding gentleman at DMV in Albany NY. He told me as long as I put my 4bt in a vehicle that originally came with a diesel engine option to simply check the diesel engine box on the reg forms and take it for safety inspection. Diesels older then I think 5 years here do not require emissions tests. I also found out that if I ran propane in any of my vehicles I simply needed to check the alt fuel box and list propane, wich would in fact enable me to a rebate on my taxes for running an environmentally friendly fuel.

Its all just a mass of BS and red tape, double talk and rules with countless exceptions. You just have to find out what hoops to jump through and what people to talk to. Good luck man, your going to need alot of it.

By the way, what state do you live in?

 

This is my last hope, because my only other option after that is a VW TDI. Who would want a TDI over a Cummins?

I've been driving both for years. I'm on my 3rd Jetta TDI, bought a 2001 new, traded it for a new 2004, eventually sold it and now I'm driving a 2002 with over 275,000 miles on it and very much enjoying the 45 miles per gallon it gives me.

I've had three Cummins powered pickups as well and am currently building a fourth. Started with a 1990 Dodge, then a 2002, then a 2004. Am now putting a 4bt into a 1977 F-150 and am nearly done.

I like 'oil burners'. If you're having trouble with the DMV out in Cali come to South Dakota, they really don't care what you're running!

 

jeeps are ok though because The newer jeep cherokees came with the diesel.Its just a repower.You can look at the european market also,.and what they use.As long as the engines newer.I know they use some of the same gassers between the jeep families.